Brittania

Hello dear friends ~:cheers:

I am playing as the Britons and am surprised to find the game is realistic and does not allow me to evolve further then Large town. Now that I have found out tho, I have a problem, I am on the verge of sending the Gauls into Oblivion, signed a pact with the Romans and have started skirmishes with the Germans. The question:

Although my units can reasonably stand up against the Romans and other evolved nations due to sheer numbers, I will soon be outmanouevred by pure quality from the Romans. I don't think I have any chance against a nicely compiled modern Roman army. So far I have managed to use the Diplomats to full effect, bribing armies that were too powerful, but I have only been fighting Gauls on a scale where they were more powerful then me. Has anybody managed to find a good way to keep their lands after the Romans become really powerful?

If memory serves correct the britons get chariots.. Use them to full advantage to flatten the romans.. then follow with a full scale infantry charge.. or pin the roman front with infantry and follow with chariot/cav to the flank.

In other words, just try to keep the romans from rolling over your weeker units for a couple minutes while you position faster cav to hit them from the sides and rear. You will have to use more tactics to beat the romans than the romans will need to beat you.

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Originally Posted by element

If memory serves correct the britons get chariots.. Use them to full advantage to flatten the romans.. then follow with a full scale infantry charge.. or pin the roman front with infantry and follow with chariot/cav to the flank.

In other words, just try to keep the romans from rolling over your weeker units for a couple minutes while you position faster cav to hit them from the sides and rear. You will have to use more tactics to beat the romans than the romans will need to beat you.

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good! becouse that's what you need to do! and try not to lock you troops in formation when defending, wait for them to move so you can see what you need to counter but you'l propably have to attack to hold them while you attack they'r flanks with cav or chariot's. you cant just sit and wait for them in a tight formation like with the romans, if i have got the britis correct.

Hmmm, I am now at war with the Dacians and they are actually trashing my armies with almost equal units, I believe I am even further in the techtree then they are. I had one battle with Greeks and got hammered by hoplites. I have got chariots but they are pretty ineffective as I can only build them in my corelands. I also use the selected (?) swordsmen as my maintroops but they are still no match for proper legions. MY biggest problem is that the troops decide to throw themselves at the enemy and I can't keep the line steady as they want to proof themselves, that has cost me six battles so far, almost all against Dacians.

I will lower my pace of conquering and try to get more chariots near the frontline with the Dacians, I am worried about the Jullii amassing to my southeast tho, I think I am going to get hammered bad!

*Correction* They build cities, not large towns.

hire lots of mercenaries!

honestly? try sucking less. the romans have two key weaknesses-
crap cav
crap archers

and because of this, they generally will build a minimal amount of both of these unit types. light chariots+cantabrian circle are your friends. send out a bunch of chariots to whittle down their morale and numbers, and when they are wavering, send in the heavy chariots to break their lines and send them screaming for the hills, with a few light cav to chase them down. head hurlers are also very effective at breaking troops, they do a HUGE amount of damage but generally only get one volley in- make it count. the english have average footsoldiers, nothing compared to the germans but still good enough if the fighting gets heavy.

I think your problem is that you are playing the romans game. the romans were feared because they had the best infantry armies in the world- of course you arent going to stand toe to toe with them. but a fleeing urban cohort dies just as quickly as a fleeing peasant. skirmishers, cavalry, hidden troops, hit and run tactics, and numbers- use them because thats what the barbarian nations are all about.

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Originally Posted by Ikken Hisatsu

honestly? try sucking less. the romans have two key weaknesses-
crap cav
crap archers

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Thanks for being constructive pal...

ok. i won against the romans, without trying, using those tactics. on v.hard/v.hard. disregard if you want- you're the one who is being beaten by the dacians (of all people) in singleplayer.

TimDogg,
I sympathise! I found it workable to bulldoze as the Brits, using big stacks who got better with experience and refitting etc but long term it was hard to match the varied enemies you're bound to come across in a campaign game.
Fighting bandits helped boost Generals, hiring mercenaries-particularly effective cav or stable infantry works but numbers are limited in a given area.
But most of all I tried to keep experienced units together by refitting.

One great thing about the game is that skirmishing works.
On the defensive I used them as a screen to break up or delay what I hoped was main attack, and pursue routers.
On attack they're flexible enough to protect you on way forwards, hem the enemy in or at worst get sacrificed while a decision is being forced somewhere else..

Like you I found a disciplined/form a line type approach hard as most of my lot were raging for battle and dashed into a fight-It seems important to point your guys at something from the start, seems to stop them dashing off after distractions. But it means you're constantly keeping an eye on all units. And always on the move.

But smash the Dacians! The Eastern steppes are a great source of manpower and good mercenaries which work well against Rome and Greece who as has been pointed out lack native cav..

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Ikken Hisatsu

ok. i won against the romans, without trying, using those tactics. on v.hard/v.hard. disregard if you want- you're the one who is being beaten by the dacians (of all people) in singleplayer.

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Hi friendly bloke, try to lighten up a bit, as you are clearly a demi-god at this game I thank you for your advice and I will try it, as you are probably so full of yourself I have high doubts of the honesty value of your advice tho.

@Moksha

Thanks pal, I broke Dacian resistance and am now using Mercenaries, I never used Mercs in MTW as they were pretty useless, but reading these forums I realize that has been fixed :P I am now at war with the Julii as expected and have actually taken Mediolanum of them, I have a Stone Walled city :D I am worried about all the SPQR legions coming north tho, and I fear being trashed in Transalpine Gaul, so I will try to amass some more mercs there.

British Head Hurlers and Druids chanting together can make Roman Legionaries run away, chosen swordsmen are also no pushover. ~;)

I found the best solution to the roman 'quality' troops is to insure that your troops are experienced. Light chariots and swordsmen are what you need and try to suck other units into fighting your infantry in snowy terrain or wooded areas.
I found that if all my units are silver exp, I can crush practically anything in my path. When other units moral breaks and they run, make sure to exterminate as many units as you can before they flee off the edge of the map and don't let them regroup. If the romans are producing new, green, troops all the time rather than retraining the ones you defeat, they don't have a chance.
Hope that helps.

Horses for courses, TimDogg.

The Roman tactical AI tends to send troops piecemeal to fight (In battle as opposed to the campaign map AI...who sends massive stacks!!).

Lismore recommends Druids and head hurlers...I concur. These have a great anti morale effect on Roman discipline.

Historically, the Britainians used hit and fade (sometimes referred to these days as guerilla tactics...oops only terrorists do that!!)...something RTW does not allow for (memories of MTW...sniff).

Oh.. and they lost BTW.

-Attalus-
Fool me once...shame on you
Fool me twicw...prepare to die

-People never remember the tactics, weapons or speeches. They remember who lived...

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Originally Posted by Ikken Hisatsu

honestly? try sucking less. the romans have two key weaknesses-
crap cav
crap archers

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Okay mate you are wrong , btw where are the mods, this is bait if i ever smelt it.
Onto the subject, crap cav!? ever met praetorian cav? they aren't bad mate the highjest stats in the game iirc. Anyways they're archers pre marian are pretty crummy but archer auxilia are ok not crap.
Anyways mate, i sympathise with your problems, try playing as the Gauls, it's even worse. You have to take the Julii head on and most of the time you can be damn sure you'll have a lot of pyrhhic victories. As you rightly say mobbing is units the key, so are support units. You will find that cav are ludicrously overpowered when it comes to the charge.
so a) against the greeks who have loads a hoplites, please just hold em and go round the sides with merc cav, preferably samartian mercs if you can get em. This will cause their line to (hopefully) buckle and you can slaughter them.
b) against the romans, you have a large problem as for them formation is not nearly so important. So my friend the cav flanking is even more essential.
c) mob em with your cheap and cheerful units
d) conquer greece to get enough money to get mercs and amazing facilities
e) good luck lord of britain and hopefully of the world... :bow:
EDIT: brits don't get chosen archer warbands I stand corrected. However slingers are still pretty good but are even worse for ff casualties.

Gentlemen. This is the Entrance Hall - a flame-free environment. Criticisms of other members' playing ability are disallowed. One member asks for advice, feel free to give it; we encourage that.

Editorial commentary on the relative abilities of other members is extremely DIScouraged.

Carry on, please.

I admire anyone that can make a go of playing one of the 'barbarian' factions, especially one so cut-off as Britannia.
Congrats on taking the fight to the Julii!

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Originally Posted by ah_dut

b) Do the brits get chosen archer warbands? if so use them as they outrange roman archers.

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No, they don't. They get head hurlers and slingers, but I don't think they really make up for the missing archers.

Gauls on the other hand...... Forester warbands..... ~:cool:

To be successful the Brits need to keep focused. Italy is the goal. Take greater France and knock the Germans off the Rhine but don't get bogged down in the east. March in, defeat their army, sack their city and then either give the province to the Dacians or let it rebel. You won't have the leaders to manage them, it takes forever to move troops, and one Italian city is worth all of central Europe.

Tactically the Brits will have a tougher job the longer the game goes along. The Romans will pump out stacks of high quality infantry, velites and cav. I've fought Roman armies that had plenty of skirmishers and light cav which made hit and run tactics not so simple or foolproof. Try to use an offensive defensive strategy when you can. Move your field army into a good defensive position near the Romans and let them attack you. It's then much easier to disrupt their formations with skirmishers, flank their line with hidden units, and then finish them off with a well timed war cry and all out charge. Also, you will be on the hill instead of trying to goad the Romans off theirs.

Once you sack the Julii cities you will have tons of cash. Keep up the pressure until all Italy is yours. I found this to be surprisingly easy because the AI doesn't use its fleets or amphibian invasions well and most of the Scipii were in Africa and the Brutii in Greece. Grinding the Brutes out of Greece was a bear though. My daughter came in to see what was wrong as I cursed out the appearance of yet another full green stack.

It was a good fight. But once Greece is yours you can take Spain and a few eastern/Dacian provinces for the win.

One thing I've found that helps with all population restricted factions is to try to stay under 15000. Unrest can be crippling for fully civilized factions, but a 30000+ city far from your capital can be near impossible for a barbarian to control. This is especially true when you need all of your money for fighting men, and not huge garrisons. What I'm trying to get to is when you hit the Italian penninsular, don't be afraid to eradicate populations. You'll get a nice lump sum and a fully functioning city (to your standards), along with a much calmer populous. That money can be used to retrain and march on.

BTW when you start to spread over vast distances, consider moving your capital to a more central location. Has anyone noticed any penalties for captial relocation? I've had over half a dozen capitals in a short game.

And in no way would I say roman archers or cav suck. Sure, they might not be 'the best' but they are mighty effective when used properly.

The later you leave the Romans the harder it gets for you. The britons are a faction who can produce very good quality infantry right away with Woad Warriors within a few turns (only problem is the 2-year training time).

Take out the Gauls ASAP and then Pick a fight with the Germans once you have all that Gallic territory. Work your way towards the Alps and take on Rome ASAP, hopefully you can catch them Pre-Marius and wipe them out.

When Italy is yours, pour East.

The Romans have crappy cav and archers? Nah, I must disagree.

The Roman cavalry has nice defense ratings, which can be a lifesaver in certain situations. Remember, whoever lasts the longest in a fight, wins.

As for the regular archers (not the auxilia-ones); they are cheap, reasonably effective, and devestating if used correctly against a faction like Britannia which has no archers at all. You can defeat the Brits in battle without engaging in melee at all if you have enough archers, just keep them occupied and deorganised, chasing after some light cavalry, and let the archers do their stuff. If they still reach you, which can be inevitable if the army's too large, then at least their ranks are thinned. Arrows are a barbarians worst enemy.

Well, TimDogg, I know it wasn't advice on how to kill your own guys you asked for, sorry about that. :sweatdrop:

[QUOTE=The_Emperor]The later you leave the Romans the harder it gets for you.

This should be your mantra with any non-roman faction. I'm currently playing as Spain, and my aim was to expand "semi-historically", meaning not to just gobble up the world, but to make war and expansion as a real faction may. So once the Romans had backstabbed me more than neccessary, I decided to sweep the Italian penninsular and Sicily. I did it as all four Roman factions had finished phazing into the Marian units. Of course, it did make for a better challenge, which is what I wanted.