Eqyptian power IS also it's downfall

I've seen a few posts about how overpowered Egypt is and wanted to reply in those threads but was unable to. But I think I found the key to their downfall. To beat the Egyptians it's more a matter of diplomacy and Espionage than one of Open Warfare.

Their main cities grow soo fast and and thus become unruly so much quicker, that 2 spies and an assassin can kick the egyptians out of the Nile Valley in about 5-6 turns, after which the rest of their towns also get hit by the 40% loyalty loss due to losing the Pyramids which leads to a dominoe effect. This triggers the Egyptians to turn their offensive power inwards to retake and quell their rebellious lands. Allowing a prepared nation to quickly dominate and exterminate the Egyptians while they're caught with their pants down. Thus the basis of their power, fast growth for quick teching to the more powerful units also turns out to be their Achilles Heal.

Maybe the Espionage/Subterfuge game is too powerful or maybe huge populations really are to difficult to control, but I used this tactic as the Brutii because the Senate gave me a stupid mission to take Siwa so I pulled every unit I could muster out of the Greek cities and shipped them down that way, being so remote and having no way to defend this city or reinforce it within a reasonable time, I pulled out my spies (I build one for every city) so I could at least have a couple turns advance notice of any Egyptian military movements towards me and built an assassin to go down there as well, hoping I could maybe whack a few young Egyptian Princes to boot. And when I finally got down there and took Siwa, I saw that one of their cities had rebelled without my help which they quickly took back and I found I had better weapons in my spies and assassin than anything else I could have brought with me to defend. Within 15 turns, I had caused rebellions in every Egyptian city upto Antioch at which point the Egyptian army started to thin itself out as it couldn't keep up with the costs. Not to mention I completely destroyed any thoughts the Egyptians had about attacking me at Siwa having created a large buffer zone of rebel cities. The timing couldn't have been better either seeing as Siwa was the city that put me over the Plebs popularity limit "Advance on Rome" and the turn before Egypt had just declared on me having Sieged my town (the one with Artemis' temple). And I really didn't want to fight the Egyptians and the SPQR/Julii/Scipii all at the same time...

Sadly though it seems as if this game will be over well before I hit the Marius Reforms ;( Oh well that will have to be for another time!

I agree, I just pick them off by bribing and back stabing

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Originally Posted by phoule

Sadly though it seems as if this game will be over well before I hit the Marius Reforms ;( Oh well that will have to be for another time!

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Probably not, they come about 120 years early (240 turns.) Then again, you might be finishing REALLY fast. :bow:

Hi,

I tried changing some of the faction units to make the campaign seem more challenging. If you lower the building requirements for some units and also the hiring/ maintainence costs then the AI builds a lot more and makes life more exciting. I did it with the Gauls and wahey- massed battles and lots of strategic decisions just to keep them out of italy- they have ambushed my army twice and they fight really well now :charge:

:duel:

i played halfway thru a campaign as the egyptians

and i cant say they are overpowered at all guys

man those chariots are weaker than i ever imagined they would be

i charge 2 groups of chariots at a few bands of measly peasents and they got slaughtered? hmmm

and my chariot archers got creamed VERY quickly by some regular rebel archers....

plus those nubian and nile spearsmen seem pretty weak too....especially agianst a few meager calvery..... :embarassed:

dont forget two of the egyptian homeland citys have ports into the red sea....which leads to Nowhere lol

in my opinion the egyptians military units are kinda weak...and i played As them....but the Slingers rock ~;)

I think I might be finishing really fast, it's currently 223BC. And my highest level of population is in my Capitol, currently with a mere 14,000 people and I only need 9 more territories to win. Roman power (my own Brutii aside) has been decimated, only the Julii remain. 2 of their last 3 cities are under siege and I think I will exile the Julii to their Sardinian holding so I can use their remaining fleets as a means to get my Navy their three gold chevrons.

Although I have started a new game as the Gauls using the Realism Mod, so I'm not likely to finish that Brutii campaign. The Gauls are surprisingly strong in this mod, and in the first 5 turns the Julii were extinct. Both games are on Med/Med.

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Originally Posted by OctavianAugustus

and my chariot archers got creamed VERY quickly by some regular rebel archers....

plus those nubian and nile spearsmen seem pretty weak too....especially agianst a few meager calvery..... :embarassed:

dont forget two of the egyptian homeland citys have ports into the red sea....which leads to Nowhere lol

in my opinion the egyptians military units are kinda weak...and i played As them....but the Slingers rock ~;)

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Yup, Chariot archers are there to harass and run from a distance.. i would not charge them into anything. Also Nubian spearmen rout WAY too easily.. Nile spearmen are slightly more hardened.

Get Axemen, upgrade to bowmen, Pharoah's bowmen are better.. use a few spearmen to defend bowmen and pepper.. pepper.. pepper away. Use the Axeman as your main assault unit once your Phalanx's tie up their infantry.. slaughter time.

The problem I am having is that the Selecuid chariots are wayyyy to powerful. They blow right into my frontline of Nile Spearmen and rout them.. I do not understand how horses and run straight into a Phalanx and survive???

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Originally Posted by phoule

I've seen a few posts about how overpowered Egypt is and wanted to reply in those threads but was unable to. But I think I found the key to their downfall. To beat the Egyptians it's more a matter of diplomacy and Espionage than one of Open Warfare.

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I've noticed the same thing in my Brutii Campaign.
Been using plague infected spies to whittle down the other factions and stunt their growth (cheezy ... but very effective).
I infiltrated 2 Egyption cities and about 8-10 years later all hell broke loose (for the Egyptians).
At least 2 of their cities had rebelled (one was their capitol).
Their once mighty military machine had been decimated by the time I rolled my 4 armies thru the pass north of Antioch.
It was a mopping up operation at that point.

I played as Seleucids (hard/hard) and had very little trouble with the Egyptians. Don't think they are overpowered at all.

In my style of play I have very little infantry (2-4 hoplite units), the rest is light cavalry, chariots, and elephants. My hoplites rarely see any action anyway :-).

General tactics is send the cavalry onto the flanks. AI will usually detach some foot units to chase it with the result that the whole enemy formation falls apart into unconnected chunks. At this point I will pick a chunk and concentrate force against it (typically by having chariots or elephants charge from the front, while light cavalry charges from the rear) with the goal of making it rout rapidly. Rinse and repeat.

Same tactics work well against greek phalanxes with the exception that you never charge them from the front. But they are so unwieldy and slow to manouever that it's rarely a problem to get a cavalry unit into their rear and break them with a charge.

Actually the most annoying thing about the Egyptians were their masses or archers. But archers are afraid of light cavalry and I had plenty of it...

Fey