Cassius the Wrathful, Gaius Victor, and Julianus the Cold-hearted

Playing as Brutii, my empire by 208 BC is easily divided into three segments - the Italian Peninsula (the homeland + Patavium and the Northern Marches), The Greek City States and the Balkans comprising the center segment, and the Eastern Greek Colonies and Islands making up the far Eastern end. To protect this empire, I had formed two hard-hitting armies, one bivuaced due West of Patavium under the joint generalship of Gaius Brutus and a former Gaulic Family Member who's name I cannot pronounce, let alone remember how to type. Gaius had become quite the General, as he was the conqueror of the Baltic cities for the house of Brutii, and had gained quite the reputation as a butcher as well as a good field tactician. As Giaus the Wrathful he was known for many years, but soon even the fickle populace realized his greatness and bestowed upon him the title of "Victor".

Cassius Brutus, a distant cousin of Gaius, had early in his career been also sent to the Greek lands to wage war, earning his stripes in the sieges of Corinth, and Sparta before an uneasy peace was had for 10 years. It was before the walls of Athens, Halicanarsus, that he would earn the title Cassius the Wrathful, and he too would bear this name for many years (a good deal of which at the same time as his cousin Gaius) before assuming the mantle of Cassius Victor.

While these great men were on campaign, a young Roman of the house of Brutii had come of age, and was quickly gaining prestige within their ranks as being bright and intellectual. Studying in Tarentum under the Paterfamilias, Julianus Brutus would go on to govern Thermon before being summoned back to become Heir to the Brutii family holdings at the young age of 22. Julianus then traveled the length and breadth of the family's vast holdings, assuming a feel for his people and surrounding himself with some of the greatest minds of the age.

With the passing of his uncle, Julianus assumed the mantle of responsibility. From this point on, his attentions remained in the Italian Penninsula, busying himself with governing the family holdings there, and pursueing Senate Offices (a political animal, it was second nature to him). Even keeled and notoriously sober, his hand was the measure of justice in the Brutii lands, and peace came to the lands. The people, too, loved him - as he loved what they loved - the games, the sport, the carnage. As a youth, he had campaigned against rebels in the Roman penninsula, and many remembered his victories of years passed with joy - a hero locally, if anything.

As time passed and Julianus ascended through Senatorial ranks, his reputation as a 'true Roman' grew without end. He had "Virtus" - true Roman, through and through. The Senate, whom he served unquestiongly, knew without question that it was Roman interests that governed his conscious, and not that of greed, fortune, or fame. Ironically, these came regardless of his lack of drive for them, and as the Pax Romana that endured through the middle and later years of his reign matured, so did the Brutii coffers, bringing the household to an epic level of financial development. This, in turn, had its negative consequences. The financial boon could not be abated, despite increases in spending towards the creation of three new legions for the security of northern border of the Greek holdings; two years later, two more additional legions were raised after the Marian reforms.

War with Egypt did not even give pause to the financial surplus, as the primary means of trade was domestic or with the other Roman states. Julianus, in his waning years, began to fancy all the finer things in life, and his sobriety and even-handedness began to appear more apathetic and cold-natured. His reputation for using the agents at his disposal did not help with this matter... As a matter of peculiarity, the elderly Thracian King met an unfortunate end sometime during the reign of Julianus, and soon thereafter, he was popularly known as Julianus the Cold-hearted; relations with Thrace [an Ally] have not deteriorated. Despite all this, he was known for having 'clean hands', as his agents were well trained enough as to not get caught.

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All this was to initiate a quick discussion of the nicknames that generals receive - I've had a few of the following:

Name - "active name"
Cassius the Wrathful
Cassius Victor
Gaius the Wrathful
Gaius Victor
Gaius Secondus
Virbisconius? the Mad [Gaulic General, purchased]
Julianus the Coldhearted
Gaius Albinus
???? the Fat [heh - he's Pontifex Maximus right now]

I've purchased three Gaulic Generals - I enjoy when you first get them that they are "so-and-so of Londignum". I use them primarily for border defense and farming retinues [leave them in your capital with your faction leader, as new younger Faction members come of age, you have ready to distribute retinues waiting for them, which means you can create "uber" generals / governors quite quickly.

Also, as an interesting peculiarity, one of my Brutii generals [I believe I purchased him from the Gauls, who had purchased him from the Julii!!] went on to become the Dacian King!! The funny part was he continued to show up on my Family tree, including his progeny - his son "Ata", his wife, his grandson, etc! I'm half tempted to find the son-of-a-gun and purchase the family back! Only time will tell.

I've had... Victor, Mighty, Angry, Wrathful, Cunning, Mad, Lewd, Cruel... even had a chap called Dionysius the Infantryman. Soon became Dionysius the Mighty though.

The Thracian King that Julianus had assasinated had a peculiar name, and was 73 years old!?!

Had a guy who was briefly called Amulius the Defender, although he was also occasionally known as the Infantryman, Victor, the Mighty and most common of all - the Mad. Because he was. Batshit.

:charge: Damn fine general though. Cut his teeth in the Gaulic Wars, basically rolling up the west side of the country before traipsing down to start work on Iberia. Had a sky high bonus for defending because the enemy would always attack him as he was about to or in the process of laying siege... and got their heads kicked in for their troubles.

I've had a general called "Arses the Lewd". Not a name you'd forget.

"Thuxra the killer" was one of my best faction leaders. "xxx the killer" being the title for widescale use of assassins. I also had a 10 star assassin who had the same title, for obvious reasons. The title seems to switch to whichever was the latest gained. So it's easy for a faction leader to go through many of them. "the mighty" is usually the last one my greatest generals gain though.

Not to sound corny, but I love the character development that goes along with the new Generals.

My Gaulic "Mercenary" Generals have now married into Roman familys and are spawning Romans of their own, and its funny to see Virbisconius the Mad of Lugdunum has a son named Decius who is now the Governor of Cyrenica. ~D

Gaius Victor earned his laurels defending the Western border of Venetia from his Legion Fort - thrice Gaulic bands attempted to harry the fort, and thrice he sallied and drove them off...

I'd have 4 units of Equites exit to the North while 2 units of Barbarian Cav Mercs and 3 units of War dogs exit to the south, with the archers, mercenaries and General waiting patiently behind the fortress walls. Then he'd order the enemy flanks turned, and the Warbands would be cut to pieces.

Gaius Victor is a good general, but Cassius Victor (nee Cassius the Wrathful) was the better general, in my opinion. He engaged "hardier" troops when campaigning agaist the Macedonians and Greeks, whereas the Gauls can find themselves in a meat grinder since few are armored.

My current Parthian king is called the conquerer. I've had all the ones that other have mentioned.

The description for the "the conquerer" traits cool.
"kill one man your a murderer, kill many men your a hero, kill them all your a conquerer"

I am quite amazed to read that if you have good skilled familymembers in your capital their quality rubs of on the youngsters, is that how it works? cause then I stop my strategy of battlefieldtraining them before they are 30. I always get good generals but administratively they tend to suck.

I've had Arses the Liar, after Arses the Mighty, etc. I think it's the last one received as I didn't lose any of his previous attributes.

I woner how some of these develop?

Aside from the victor line the only one I've had is Amulius the Handsome.

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Originally Posted by TimDogg

I am quite amazed to read that if you have good skilled familymembers in your capital their quality rubs of on the youngsters, is that how it works? cause then I stop my strategy of battlefieldtraining them before they are 30. I always get good generals but administratively they tend to suck.

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I think what he was saying is that he leaves a fairly useless general there gathering a retinue and when a new and promising family member appears he transfers the retinue from the useless guy to the new promising one, giving him a boost from the get go...

I think the best way to improve the management skills of a family member is to put them in charge of a city which is making loads of money for a while...

Epithets (to use the technical term) are tied to the vices and virtues system. When someone arrives at some kind of ultimate perfection in the pursuit of a particular VnV the epithet is added to the character's name.

I think there are 70 or so into the data, so there's plenty more that you haven't seen yet: "Corpulentus" for, example, and "Signifer" spring to mind.

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Originally Posted by TopHatJones

I woner how some of these develop?

Aside from the victor line the only one I've had is Amulius the Handsome.

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I have also had "the Cavalryman" and "the Orator" and I have seen an enemy general who was "the Mean."

I love you, CA.

In continueing with this discussion:

With the Senate's sanctioning of the planned invasion of Pharoah's holdings in the Nile, another general came back to the attention of the Plebian class. Vibius Brutus, once a Governor of some renown in the Greek cities, had become a glutton and a gourmand, and was ill-suited to governmental duties. His temper had worsened, and his subjects took to calling him 'Vibius the Mean'. Attached to the Nile Cohorts originally as added "influence" to sway the newly conquered, a shortage of command material found Vibius leading the Onager, Scorpion, and Ballista troops of Legio Brutii Africanus. In this regard he performed exceptionally, with his troops accumulating accolades in battle against the servants of the Pharoah in battles west of the Nile delta. Following these actions, Vibius assumed command of the entire Legion upon receiving Senatorial order to undertake a siege of Thebes, finding incredible success there. As per current Brutii Modus Operandi, the population was put to the sword. Vibius was 67 years young at the time of the fall of Thebes.

Thus began a campaign that lasted for over 10 years with Vibius at the head - after the fall of Thebes came Gaza, to be followed by Jerusalem and Antioch, the list contiued. Vibius the Mean terrorized that corner of the earth for that century - his army was eventually would divide into three columns of march, the first comprised of Legionary Cavalry, Roman Cavalry, Cavalry Auxilia, and, in case the need would arise*, Flaming Pigs [*It never did, and they were destined to end up garrisoned in Antioch by the eigth year of his campaigns]. The second column comprised of the General, his retinue of mercenaries (three units of Eastern Mercenaries, one unit of Rhodian Slingers, and a single unit of Mercenary Elephants), a unit of Arcani [from the goodwill of the Senate], the General's War Dogs, and [of course] the Artillery - 8 units of Onagers, 2 units of Ballistas, and 2 units of Scorpions.

The third column was comprised of Legionary Cohorts, Early Legionary Cohorts, Archer Auxilia, Auxilia, and pre-Marian Hastati and Principes for defenses and garrisoning newly captured towns.

Vibius Victor became Vibius the Mighty at the ripe age of 78, and is still campaigning with vigor. No, he's not sitting in some easy-chair at the Patavium-Retirement home. He's waging offensive war against my sworn enemy, the Pharoah (he's personally overseen the death of 4 crowned Pharoahs in this ten year campaign) at the head of some 800+ men!

-=-

I can expect him to die soon, but damn, is it a sight seeing him lay waste to a town during a siege - all the Onagers pummeling the town into oblivion, whilst a single 14 man General unit sits in the background - and knowing that that guy on the end with the big fancy helmut is a 78 year-old, senile, gluttonous, stark-raving-lunatic-catamite-miser of a man who would probably intimidate me non-the-less! The best part about him? I find his speaches hilarious - they are well spoken, normal, and encouraging - until the last line, when he refers to the enemy being backed by the moon people, 'and we've got shiny hats that will shield us from their gaze'.

His troops know full well he's batty. Absolutely nuts. But I would rather follow him into battle, any day.

Mr. Kurtz? He dead.

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Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

I think the best way to improve the management skills of a family member is to put them in charge of a city which is making loads of money for a while...

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I disagree. More often than not for me, regions that are producing more / creating more revenue can quickly become bad locations for Generals to remain for long periods of time. All that money flying around in close proximity leads to temptations, for lack of a better way of terming it. Your faction members will soon find themselves with prolific amounts of negative VnVs as they remain "dormant" in an area.

My greatest Faction members typically have matured into exceptionally bright 16 and 17 year olds and then, if all is right, I help steer them towards greater levels of proficiency with Retinue Swapping. Right now, my faction Heir, 36 years old, has a full contingent of 8 members in his retinue, and of that 8, 6 are special [Archimedes, etc] characters that I have been 'saving' for the last 150 years. This being said, having this awesome retinue did not save this man from poor life choices (he was, in his youth [after adding to his retinue] a 5 star general, 4x management, and 7+x influence) and now he is a shell of the former greatness because of negative VnVs accumulated from remaining in my capital of Tarentum [the majority of these VnVs are directly related to my trade-revenue, I am led to believe].

Your best bet? You've got a 4 year window after a member matures to improve him in a big city like your capital (through the use of the Academy). If you don't get anything special after 4 years, get him out anyways. Now I've got to keeping my Faction Heirs and other notable Generals that I would like to keep in the vicinity of my capital in a fort just outside of the city. They don't receive any negative affects from all the hub-bub of the city, but they are within "striking distance" if needed to put down a rebellion or move to greener pastures.

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Originally Posted by LordKhaine

"Thuxra the killer" was one of my best faction leaders. "xxx the killer" being the title for widescale use of assassins. I also had a 10 star assassin who had the same title, for obvious reasons.

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My faction lider (Julii) now is even worse: Caius the Murderer. I just started to widely use assasins on the map. Well - I thought it will stay a secret, but now it seems all the antic world knows that...

Anyway, nicknames for the leaders is something I allways thought were missing in MTW. All the kings in Medieval Europe had nicknames. In MTW, when they were gone, gone they stayed, couldn't remember anymore who reigned when. That has changed now, for the better. Isn't it so touching to remember that leader... Caius the Murderer... and his happy family? I still wait for some Pluto ExTerminator (exterminates populations in conquered settlements, of course) or Alfons the Lucky Bastard (perfect moron who married a not-so-bright girlie coming from a desperate heirless family, now getting ready to inherit half the known world).

Is there a chance of someone getting the nickname "the Great"?

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Originally Posted by -Abbey.keeper-

Is there a chance of someone getting the nickname "the Great"?

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there are two character traits that give 'the great' as an epitath when you reach the highest possible value of that trait. One is the roman culture only trait 'RomanHero' - the triggers for this trait are postbattle, and your general has to have killed badguys or have lost hitpoints to have a chance of improving.

The complete trait line is;

Local_Hero
Popular_Hero
Roman_Hero
National_Hero - 'the Brave'
Legendary_Hero - 'the Great'



The other is the 'warlord' trait - for all cultures except carthaginian, eastern, egyptian, greek, roman. The strange thing about this trait is that there are only 2 triggers, one is a comesOfAge trigger - so you can get it as a starting trait, and even more weirdly the second is an EndedInSettlement trigger attached to temple_of_victory - which gives any general (of the correct culture only i think) in a settlement with a british Shrine to Andrasta or a greek temple of Nike a 10% chance of getting it... I think I will mod my traits file to have it triggered post-battle myself now I see this.

The complete warlord traitline is;

War_Chief
Mighty_War_Chief
Warlord
Legendary_Warlord - 'the Great'

In my Scipii campaign, I had Publius the Mean, who presided over some quite squalid cities. I have had two named "the Honest." Valerius Victor died in Campus Scythii of natural causes, with the end of the Scythians in sight. Right now I have a general with the amusing name of Spurius Victor--I suppose his victories have been erroneously attributed to him.

When I did the tutorial campaign, I had one general die in his first battle at about the age of 18. In the family tree, his name read "Julianus the Wrathful." He must have made quite an impression in his only charge.

I have a general called Manius Corpulentus. He has Appician Glutton trait.

An update -
The Campaign against the Dacians has started, with distant relatives fighting each other from siege to siege in Eastern Europe (the Dacians have yet to attempt fight outside their walls). One of the youngest of the Brutii House is personally overseeing the eradication of the errant bloodline that flows through the veins of the Dacian ruling family, so far three have met the Gods at the end of his Legions Spears. This campaign also marked the first use of 4 Praetorian Cavalry units raised in Patavium, who's honor it was to protect the new starlet who led this Legion.

-=-
I had originally planned to purchase back one or two of the errant family members as a means of re-instating that branch of the house into the Brutii fold, but I keep killing the Faction Leader, which causes a new one to take the crown and be untouchable. Will see what luck I have tonight.

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Originally Posted by Bob the Insane

I think what he was saying is that he leaves a fairly useless general there gathering a retinue and when a new and promising family member appears he transfers the retinue from the useless guy to the new promising one, giving him a boost from the get go...

I think the best way to improve the management skills of a family member is to put them in charge of a city which is making loads of money for a while...

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On managing governors.................

In my current Julii campaign I'm doing this:

I only build the Academy group of buildings in Arretium, Mediolanum, Patavium, Ariminum (spelling?).

In those cities, I have all three types of temple (Ceres, Jupiter, Bacchus). All start their training at the capital. When they gain the priest for that temple, I move them to a city with one of other temple types (capital has Ceres, Mediolanum has Bacchus, the rest have Jupiter). In that way they pick up retinue at all stops, and eventually have all priests. I've found that once a character picks up a priest, it doesn't seem to be picked up by any others in the city until he leaves (not sure about this yet, but it seems to work this way). So having the Academy/Scriptorium/Ludus Magna buildings in all my primary training cities means that at the end of 4-5 game years (about 10 turns) I have fully trained kids with all priest types and plenty of retinue ready to go out into the world and make a name for themselves. Then its just picking/choosing what to do with all of them... the best young candidate becomes my faction hier and I'm off and running.

Seems to be working well so far.

Anyone know of the actual amount that an Academy / Scriptorium / Ludus Magna chain of buildings affect the 'production' of Retinue? Is it a percentage change to occur, a set number allowed per turn / per character, or any combination of the above?

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Originally Posted by Modus

Anyone know of the actual amount that an Academy / Scriptorium / Ludus Magna chain of buildings affect the 'production' of Retinue? Is it a percentage change to occur, a set number allowed per turn / per character, or any combination of the above?

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export_desc_ancillaries contains plenty of triggers that depend on academy buildings being present. IOW if you don't have the buildings there are certain retinue members who you won't get. If you do have the buildings then I'm pretty sure the game checks each applicable trigger (each has its own conditions and % chance etc.) in turn. So you can get multiple retinue characters per turn if you are lucky.

The actual % chance varies a lot from trigger to trigger, have a look in the txt file if you want to know a specific value.

My julii generals tend to become 'the infantrymen' as i usually have all hastati + velites and a token equites unit for chasing down routers.

One guy became 'gaelitucus' or something after a string of brutal battles against the gauls (battle after battle - 4 of which wound up as crossed swords on the campaign map (all in the provinces of pataviam and mediolanum)) in a concentrated space of maybe 7 years.

[QUOTE=Lord Gnome]export_desc_ancillaries contains plenty of triggers that depend on academy buildings being present.QUOTE]

I found these rather interesting ancillaries there:

-Inflatable sheep

-Over protective nanny

-Floozy

-Tender of the arse

-Torturer

Take a look. There's a lot more where that came from.

I bribed an Egyptian general who came with his very own Tender of the Arse. The description read, "It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it." If I remember correctly, it gave him a +1 against assassination. The stat bost was less interesting than the title.

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Originally Posted by Lord Gnome

there are two character traits that give 'the great' as an epitath when you reach the highest possible value of that trait. One is the roman culture only trait 'RomanHero' - the triggers for this trait are postbattle, and your general has to have killed badguys or have lost hitpoints to have a chance of improving.

The complete trait line is;

Local_Hero
Popular_Hero
Roman_Hero
National_Hero - 'the Brave'
Legendary_Hero - 'the Great'



The other is the 'warlord' trait - for all cultures except carthaginian, eastern, egyptian, greek, roman. The strange thing about this trait is that there are only 2 triggers, one is a comesOfAge trigger - so you can get it as a starting trait, and even more weirdly the second is an EndedInSettlement trigger attached to temple_of_victory - which gives any general (of the correct culture only i think) in a settlement with a british Shrine to Andrasta or a greek temple of Nike a 10% chance of getting it... I think I will mod my traits file to have it triggered post-battle myself now I see this.

The complete warlord traitline is;

War_Chief
Mighty_War_Chief
Warlord
Legendary_Warlord - 'the Great'

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my characters could only manage up to pop hero so far...
Thanks for the insight :bow:

anyway i was playing the seleucids and instead of the "heros" trait, they have the "Victors" trait. could that be the missing link?

oops double post :embarassed: