[mtw][mtw:vi] How to avoid overbuilding troops in the beginning?

Well, if any of the provinces rebel in the first few turn it is hard to quell, may even break a game. So I tend to overbuild the low-cost units just to avoid that. However in turn the first few thousand florins part me very fast and after that all improvements builds stall. So any tips and tricks, rule of thumbs, how to find the fine balance? How many troops in the rebellious and in normal provices for avoiding the rebellion for sure? 100? 200? 250? Thanks for the ideas! ~:handball:

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Originally Posted by bretwalda

Well, if any of the provinces rebel in the first few turn it is hard to quell, may even break a game. So I tend to overbuild the low-cost units just to avoid that. However in turn the first few thousand florins part me very fast and after that all improvements builds stall. So any tips and tricks, rule of thumbs, how to find the fine balance? How many troops in the rebellious and in normal provices for avoiding the rebellion for sure? 100? 200? 250? Thanks for the ideas! ~:handball:

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Never had that much problems in the beginning..... Though I NEVER build peasants. I tend to balance my forces throughout the country(easier with Denmark ~D but doable with most factions, minus maybe Germany & Byzantium), and this is usually enough to avoid problems.

Plus I do use the "autotax" feature(the lone micromanagement level I do delegate to the machine). It usually limits most of the problems. ~:cool:

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Originally Posted by el_slapper

Plus I do use the "autotax" feature(the lone micromanagement level I do delegate to the machine). It usually limits most of the problems. ~:cool:

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This is better if you have VI, where they raised the target loyalty to 120%, i think. It was 100% in normal MTW. 100% was too low as a minor wobble could cost you the entire province!

Oh, then I will use autotax, too... I guess. If I put 150 troops everywhere and 250 in rebellious (Livonia, Lithuania, etc) provinces and use autotax, will I be fine?

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Originally Posted by Morat

This is better if you have VI, where they raised the target loyalty to 120%, i think. It was 100% in normal MTW. 100% was too low as a minor wobble could cost you the entire province!

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Originally Posted by bretwalda

Oh, then I will use autotax, too... I guess. If I put 150 troops everywhere and 250 in rebellious (Livonia, Lithuania, etc) provinces and use autotax, will I be fine?

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Depends on a whole range of things that influence loyalty, from the length of time you've had the province, to the buildings you have there. Religious buildings improve loyalty, as will border towers and forts, town watches, brothels, and Colleges of Surgeons. Spies will also work wonders, depending on their ability, as they both improve loyalty and catch enemy spies. Other things include converting the local population to your religion. Your governor's dread rating affects it, and I think his piety if the zeal of the province is high enough. There may be other things.

There are a few other odd things that affect loyalty. Being cut off your king always seemed to be a problem for loyalty.

The holding the shift key down, IIRC, was a good for quick way to get an overview of the loyalty of your realm.

Is it so simple, that if my empire is (shift down) all-green before I press 'end turn' I will be safe? ;) That would be great.

Anyway, I usually build watchtower, borderfort, church and put there at least 2 units of slavs, peasant or spearmen. Now I will put it on autotax and check whether all my provinces are on very high tax rate - so that their loyalty is upkept by other factors than low taxes. If not, I add another unit.
Seems to be a good way.

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Originally Posted by Morat

Depends on a whole range of things that influence loyalty, from the length of time you've had the province, to the buildings you have there. Religious buildings improve loyalty, as will border towers and forts, town watches, brothels, and Colleges of Surgeons. Spies will also work wonders, depending on their ability, as they both improve loyalty and catch enemy spies. Other things include converting the local population to your religion. Your governor's dread rating affects it, and I think his piety if the zeal of the province is high enough. There may be other things.

There are a few other odd things that affect loyalty. Being cut off your king always seemed to be a problem for loyalty.

The holding the shift key down, IIRC, was a good for quick way to get an overview of the loyalty of your realm.

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Is it so simple, that if my empire is (shift down) all-green before I press 'end turn' I will be safe? ;) That would be great.

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Basically. Not worth worrying about anyway. IIRC you can get faction remergences even if you are in the 100-120% range (which is green) but you won't have to worry about those in the first few turns.

OK. I will stick to that. Though I'd prefer to avoid them alltogether... I mean rebels and reemergences...

Autotax and press Shift will help.

i realy like scrolling through my empire (human resource managm./Personalwesen ~D )

150% is save.. if you like to.

but a 89% doesn`t say there will be any revolt. it`s just very likely to.(just means just, here. not..just a step, at the cliff)..these cowards.
i had provinces with a 141% and they revolted.

atm, i have three provinces in the HRE whom i try to get revolting as often as possible.(be nice to yourself, no armourer/annoying upgrades in this provinces!) so many generals got a +1 command, from these "villans-massacres" because i got the message: he has won more battles than lost..(yes, his first one). after a while the people will lose their will to revolt (..followed the head??)

if the % is close to 200(~188%), then lower the tax- rate for a turn. the people will like it, for the future.

king gives a bonus. i think i can double this by, also, lowering the tax- rate for a single turn (while he`s there). the time he leaves a rise in tax will only annoy a very few (sometimes none!) by then.

i don`t use any auto-option.

It is not simple. There is a bug that causes loyalty to be displayed improperly after loading a save. It might show 100% and actually be 75 or 80. Subsequent turns are fine, until you exit the game again. You can account for this easily by noting the province with the lowest loyalty before saving and exiting. When you come back and load the game later, check that province and subtract the difference when looking at any of your province loyalties. If you don't have the info, assume the delta is 25%. Once or twice I've seen it approach 27 or 28% other times it is as low as 20%. All of this is on "expert."

Only a few select provinces have ever rebelled on me with 100% or greater (actual) loyalty. Most of the time it was because the garrison was less than 100 men. I can only recall one "unexplained" rebellion in Norway or Sweden.

I run with max taxes and smallest possible garrison sizes. Autotax greatly reduces your net income.

I disband low quality troops like peasants and base level spearmen when I can. That way I can build better quality troops to take their place.

Use watchtowers and borderforts to improve loyalty, as well as religious structures. Getting 4 acumen governors with a little dread also helps.

I like peasant garrisons ~:)

The most cost-effective unit for that duty. Think of it as giving the "commons" a lesson in civics :charge:

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Originally Posted by bretwalda

Oh, then I will use autotax, too... I guess. If I put 150 troops everywhere and 250 in rebellious (Livonia, Lithuania, etc) provinces and use autotax, will I be fine?

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Rebellious provinces (Portugal, Ireland, Livonia, Lithuania) may need more troops, the best way to start is with the Watch Towers/Border Forts combo followed by other happiness buildings. Make sure none of the troops in the province have unhappiness vices and try to move in some with the happiness bonus.

mfberg

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Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

I like peasant garrisons ~:)

The most cost-effective unit for that duty. Think of it as giving the "commons" a lesson in civics :charge:

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Nah. Spies are the most effective. Hoards of spies. 4 by province, & you're quiet(well, maybe not in Portugal). ~:cool:

Red Harvest's post implies it, but maybe it is worth saying explicitly - I think 100 men is a magic number. As I understand it, have a garrison less than that and you risk a rebellion, regardless of the loyalty %.

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Red Harvest's post implies it, but maybe it is worth saying explicitly - I think 100 men is a magic number. As I understand it, have a garrison less than that and you risk a rebellion, regardless of the loyalty %.

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Less than a hundred men and no fort in a province will triger a bandit rebelion regardless of loyalty, or so I understand. However, when playing as the Romans I once left Volhynia totally ungarrisonded (I didn't want to keep the province: it was too exposed and I needed the troops, so I thought: let it rebel and then I won't go to war once somebody takes it). But it didn't rebel, not for years. And nobody attacked it either. This strange situation lasted until the end of my campaign (because my King died without offspring). I don't remember if the province contained a fort or not.