Europa Barbarorum Status

The Trivium Organization is proud to present: Europa Barbarorum, a complete conversion for Rome: Total War.

Europa Barbarorum is a modification for Rome: Total War based on the desire to provide RTW players with a more fun, challenging, realistic, and historically accurate gaming experience. Contrary to popular opinion, Europa Barbarorum is not solely focused on barbarian factions (though the name was derived from a desire to portray barbarians more accurately). EB takes great pains to portray all factions correctly, including Rome.

Europa Barbarorum is a community modification that has been in existence for many months; research began long before the release of RTW. All of us work on the mod according to our skill, ability, and desire. We have members who do historical research, make modifications to the map or economic system, create new unit models and skins, and a host of other tasks. If you are interested in joining this effort please let us know - all who have the desire to make the game better, more challenging, and more accurate are welcome.

Internal build v0.3a has been distributed to the testers. This release may be found in the EB protected forum. We will only release a polished product to the public; this includes enough content to significantly enhance gameplay, eliminate ALL bugs, and in general be playable and enjoyable. We do not believe in releasing versions that are "works in progress." To wit, we cannot give you a date for our first public release. However, we are closing toward that goal day by day.

Map progress:
Our current internal version is nothing more than a rearrangement of some of the geography features, the addition of less than ten new provinces, and several name changes and such to make things more accurate. Our new map should be released for internal testing in the next week or two. This map is both much larger and more realistic than the current map, having been expanded both north and east, with a large number of new provinces that should better portray the faction and tribal reach c. 270 BCE.

Those wishing for an even bigger map will be disappointed, as we will almost certainly not be extending it beyond the Indus. However, we are already rushing headlong toward the 200 province limit, and compromises must be made because of this. Our information comes from satellite photography, topographical maps, period maps, primary sources, and secondary information regarding the change in climate and such over the past 2500 years. All aspects of the map are looked at, including mountains, forests, the placement of rivers and fords, resource placement, and more.

Faction progress:
Our current internal version contains mostly cosmetic changes to the factions, including making the provincial holdings more accurate, several name changes, minor changes to family trees, name lists, and starting armies. In the near future we will be replacing two factions with new factions, one of which you may be familiar with, one you may not be (sorry, we're keeping this a surprise for the moment). In addition, we have plans for revamping the Roman structure to be more realistic.

We have made a decision not to fudge with the game mechanics too much in the case of Rome. Since CA decided to hard code the interaction between the Senate and the three Roman factions, changing this relationship causes very real issues, and we cannot replace the roman factions with others due to this hard code. However, we recognize that the patrician family system is nowhere near historical, and so we have a system we feel will be a passable stopgap until we can truly change the way Rome is depicted. CA needs to open up more to modders to make that a reality, however. Keep your hopes up, we are.

In general, not a single faction will be the same once we are through with them. A great deal of progress has already been made in overhauling them.

Unit progress:
We are creating an entire new set of units. We will be using every single one of the 300-unit limit, and even then we have had to make compromises about what makes it into the mod, and what does not. (Rest assured that all the fantasy units got the axe very quickly.) About 75% of these units are made from scratch, we've trashed over 200 existing units, and every single one we kept is getting a new model, skin, name, or all of the above. Nothing will be the same.

The release going out for alpha testing this week includes approximately 50 new units. Most of the factions have at least a good portion of their units defined. By defined I mean a name given, description created, equipment and clothing noted for our graphics folks, and historical info recorded. Our unit list for units waiting to be created may have reached 200 by the time I post this. Note that this does not only mean the units slated for each faction. You see, our groups have responsibility over certain areas/ethic groups, and we are defining new merc and rebel units for these areas. Some of these may be used for future factions when we have the ability to add them, but some are simply there to properly depict rebels from certain areas, or tribes that are outside of the factions we have made/will be making. As you can see we are leaving no stone unturned.

Building progress:
Our tireless mod team has defined an entirely new building system. While the way cities, provinces, and the economy is portrayed in RTW is very abstract, and very hard to make realistic due to so much hard code, we feel we're coming close. While we have defined a new set of buildings I am very sad to say that no work has been done in creating them, since we have no one willing and able to do the 2D and 3D work on our new buildings. So please, if you can do this and are willing to work hard, we need you!

Recruitment system progress:
We have designed and tested a recruitment system that allows us to define an area where troops can be recruited on the individual unit level. Thus we are able to make the creation of units entirely regional, except for certain factions that raised foreign armies. Originally born of the "homelands" concept from Wes's MedMod (we have several members who worked on the MedMod project), we are refining this to be as true to life as possible.

Naval system progress:
There is lots of hard code to deal with here, but we are working on an idea we think will make navies more realistic, and give the AI less of a hard time. Bear with us as we work out the details.

Multimedia progress:
Recently, the Voice mod team merged with EB, and became active members. This is fortuitous for both projects, as our skills and knowledge are complementary. I am happy to report that since this merger, Shigawire has been able to find people from EB to fill in many of the gaps he had as far as languages are concerned. There is still work to be done, but things are looking bright! Just wait until you hear a barditus!

We have a musician doing custom work for EB. We are providing him with samples of period instruments from the different ethic groups/cultures of the time, and he is putting together music. We are very excited by this. In addition, we have an artist working on a custom splash screen picture. We have not yet begun it, but we will have a custom intro video, as well as new videos for each faction.

Economic system progress:
This is tough going, because of the limitations CA has placed on us through not exposing the AI routines, and hard-coding much of the economic interactions such as resources, base farm levels, trade routes, and so on. We really need CA to open some things up for us to truly make this better and more challenging. We're doing our best, but the reality is that we may need to make one provincial campaign per faction for the human player to have a truly challenging experience. Unless, of course, CA helps us out in one of their upcoming patches. Keep your hopes up!

A bit of history:
Europa Barbarorum was conceived during the development of Rome: Total War, in the calendar year 2003. Members of the EB project wanted to gather historical information about the factions and units RTW was to depict, in order to help CA portray them accurately. Given information that had come out regarding the completely baseless portrayal of barbarian factions, the members had hoped to provide enough of a research base to make a difference. No one listened. So, the group took it upon themselves to make a modification using this information, and more. This project is the result of that determination.

In all things we do, the primary focus of EB remains historical accuracy. We believe that realism and fun can, and will, go hand in hand. Whenever possible, we do not compromise historical accuracy - we have found that so far, this enhances both immersion and gameplay.

Our end product will be historically accurate enough to be used in the classroom as an educational tool. The campaign will be both an extremely fun experience and full of information geared toward introducing new persons to the rich history of the factions of the classical age.

EB v0.4a has been uploaded. v0.4a is an alpha version available only to internal testers, at this time.

I am a patient anticipator of this Classic Project and have been following closely for half a year at least.

If I might be usefull in any way my primary education is that of Historian, I obtained a Masters in modern history in 1999, then went on in Politics, Conflict Precention etc. etc.

I have been a fanatic of Greco-Roman period history since I was a toddler probably

I know the geography of the Roman world, my work has taken me into all areas of the CIS, the Balkans, Greece, and all of the EU... I grew up in North Africa.

I adore primary sources, and have read much of the period's first hand documents that I could ever get my hands on.

I would love to see you Europa Babarorum include some sort of Supra-national entity for the Helenic League, which continued to be a reason only the Romans managed to finally defeat the Greek world.

Ideally Carthage should have a Senate like Rome's

A similiar system could be used to control the "Barbarian Factions" but real unity and frequency of infiting would probably be hard to portray

Anyways, what has been presented to the outside is amazing so far, and this mod could be the best historical piece of software to ever hit the Strategy Gaming World.

There was a funny little game years ago from Electronic Arts called Centurion

This game had wonderful elements of Diplomacy very reflective of historical elements in Romam diplomacy... RTW really lacks in terms of diplomacy... but some minor concrete changes could significantly enrich it.

1) Protectorates should be enriched, and the player should have the right to draft protectorate state's forces into own services, as for example Carthage the Numidians, or the Seleucids the Persians, Carthage the Iberians.

Protectorates should be akin to colonization.

2) For Barbarian factions it would be good to see a random unit skin generator that gives slightly different skins for each unit drafted. The Barabarian factions are too uniform in appearance. Barbarian factions represented, comparing to Greeks and Romans, lack of overarching physical dogma, and warriors armed themselves as they wanted.

3) On the topic of the Steppe. The Sarmatians should exist appart from Scythians. But both should be represented.

4) I would love to see great cities start great at the onset of the game period. I hope EB amends population values to be more realisic. That is to say that 10X of what RTW vanilla represented. Carthage 200,000 in 280 BCE for instance

5) Rebellions, which are ever important should start mostly in the provinces, and not in cities. If they start in cities then units should be placed randomly (or around barracks/stable/ central square) on the battle map. City rebels should be less powerful than provincial rebels. Rome and Greece should have frequent rebellious would-be-consuls and would-be-tyrants appearing in the field.

Impossible changes I know... but a little vision is what EB seems to be about! :charge:

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I would love to see you Europa Babarorum include some sort of Supra-national entity for the Helenic League, which continued to be a reason only the Romans managed to finally defeat the Greek world.

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I believe we have implemented a hellenic league...

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Ideally Carthage should have a Senate like Rome's

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Impossible due to hardcoded issues

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1) Protectorates should be enriched, and the player should have the right to draft protectorate state's forces into own services, as for example Carthage the Numidians, or the Seleucids the Persians, Carthage the Iberians.

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Agree but think this also is impossible

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2) For Barbarian factions it would be good to see a random unit skin generator that gives slightly different skins for each unit drafted. The Barabarian factions are too uniform in appearance. Barbarian factions represented, comparing to Greeks and Romans, lack of overarching physical dogma, and warriors armed themselves as they wanted.

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I am sure that this is impossible

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3) On the topic of the Steppe. The Sarmatians should exist appart from Scythians. But both should be represented.

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Check with Khel but I think this is in there...

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4) I would love to see great cities start great at the onset of the game period. I hope EB amends population values to be more realisic. That is to say that 10X of what RTW vanilla represented. Carthage 200,000 in 280 BCE for instance

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In game issues...200,000 people, imagine the Squalor...

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5) Rebellions, which are ever important should start mostly in the provinces, and not in cities. If they start in cities then units should be placed randomly (or around barracks/stable/ central square) on the battle map. City rebels should be less powerful than provincial rebels. Rome and Greece should have frequent rebellious would-be-consuls and would-be-tyrants appearing in the field.

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Another thing we'd love to do but impossible due to circumstances beyond our control

I hope this helps mate

EB's motto should be: "Making a great game better."

Can't wait for the mod!

XAIPETE!

I just came across this link and it sounds like a great project you have going. I'm really excited to hear that someone out there is taking advantage of this games potential. Great work!

I received my BA in Classics and I'm big time Total War enthusiast. If you have room for any other testers/devs/whatever... I'd love to help :)

A simple request for the team to consider... More cultural/religious landmarks. Something along the lines of the wonders we see in the vanila RTW. It couldn't help but add a little color to the game if we included a few notable sites like Bath, Cumae, Delphi, Dodona etc etc etc

jasonwclark@gmail.com

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Originally Posted by DemonArchangel

EB's motto should be: "Making a great game better."

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Or alternatively:

"Taking potential and capitalizing on it."

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Originally Posted by Diomedes

XAIPETE!

I just came across this link and it sounds like a great project you have going. I'm really excited to hear that someone out there is taking advantage of this games potential. Great work!

I received my BA in Classics and I'm big time Total War enthusiast. If you have room for any other testers/devs/whatever... I'd love to help :)

A simple request for the team to consider... More cultural/religious landmarks. Something along the lines of the wonders we see in the vanila RTW. It couldn't help but add a little color to the game if we included a few notable sites like Bath, Cumae, Delphi, Dodona etc etc etc

jasonwclark@gmail.com

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They can't edit wonders or add new ones, it is hard coded into the game. :embarassed:

We'll be removing them as they exist today (Wonders). They will show up in a province's list of existing buildings, and on the battle map, and there will be more of them. However, their effects will be drastically reduced, and unfortunately they will not show up as separate on the campaign map.

We consider this a good tradeoff. Removing some eye candy from the campaign map (only) for much less imbalancing effects, more in line with what they might have actually provided to a province (a small bonus to morale, or law, or what have you) rather than a huge faction-wide bonus. Plus we're adding some of our own creation, and as soon as Verci and Ailill crack the building code we'll add more to the city plans as well.

Dunno if this was asked already, but i was wondering if the patch encompasses the RTW 1.2 patch as well (u know, the upgrades to the ai and such and ability to see wonders on map)? And i just want to congradulate you on what your doing. Don't get discouraged and settle for less, because you guys are going to make CA blush with embarraseement! ~;)

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Originally Posted by Nothing_Grows

Dunno if this was asked already, but i was wondering if the patch encompasses the RTW 1.2 patch as well (u know, the upgrades to the ai and such and ability to see wonders on map)? And i just want to congradulate you on what your doing. Don't get discouraged and settle for less, because you guys are going to make CA blush with embarraseement! ~;)

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Of course this will be compatible with the 1.2 patch. These guys are geniuses. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Nothing_Grows

Dunno if this was asked already, but i was wondering if the patch encompasses the RTW 1.2 patch as well (u know, the upgrades to the ai and such and ability to see wonders on map)? And i just want to congradulate you on what your doing. Don't get discouraged and settle for less, because you guys are going to make CA blush with embarraseement! ~;)

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indeed, with EB this game is becomming everything CA could have made it. it all looks great, btw, can anybody give me the link to teh screenshots-thread. I lost it
btw how does it feel to keep the entire TW community in tension about this mod.
any release on wich faction will be deleted and implented?

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Originally Posted by jerby

indeed, with EB this game is becomming everything CA could have made it. it all looks great, btw, can anybody give me the link to teh screenshots-thread. I lost it
btw how does it feel to keep the entire TW community in tension about this mod.
any release on wich faction will be deleted and implented?

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well, except for one major hardcoded bug, which CA currently does not acknowledge nor deny

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=22412.topic

any eta on this?

shame on me for being lazy :embarassed: . i found this answer in another thread.

As always, I am eagerly awaiting EB.

You professionals are certainly developing a reputation here. I can really sense the energy and anticipation around these boards. I'm sure you will not dissapoint.

If CA had the vision to do so, they could capitalize on your work by financing you and making this an expansion.

Warmest Regards and best wishes for your continued success.

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Originally Posted by Divinus Arma

As always, I am eagerly awaiting EB.

You professionals are certainly developing a reputation here. I can really sense the energy and anticipation around these boards. I'm sure you will not dissapoint.

If CA had the vision to do so, they could capitalize on your work by financing you and making this an expansion.

Warmest Regards and best wishes for your continued success.

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I think that this is an effort of free commitment and good will. The money factor would only spoil everything. I mean who would get paid on what base and for what? There are volunteers from every part of the world. You think CA doesnt have people capable to do everything faster and easier? The problem propably has to do with money and time, something that doesnt troubles people here ~:) theres no deadlines or advertisement expenses running. ~D

Back in November I was able to edited and move the wonders.

In addition, the soon to be released updated CVP takes care of the new bug as well as a few other smaller issues not addressed in the 1.2 patch. The corrections should be in the next internal build.

-Spartan

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

well, except for one major hardcoded bug, which CA currently does not acknowledge nor deny

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=22412.topic

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what was the major bug?
btw CA screwed up on many points, lack of research in history and lack of programming

I really wish RTW would be more modder friendly. Features are impossible to add. CA does a half-assed job and then don't let people fix them themselves.

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Originally Posted by Idomeneas

I think that this is an effort of free commitment and good will. The money factor would only spoil everything. I mean who would get paid on what base and for what? There are volunteers from every part of the world. You think CA doesnt have people capable to do everything faster and easier? The problem propably has to do with money and time, something that doesnt troubles people here ~:) theres no deadlines or advertisement expenses running. ~D

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Iomenea

If you look at the pathetic "egyptian" faction you will see that the problem here isnt the amount of time or money but the allocation of it...
All that effort of making up fantasy units, skinning them, making the models the making up and writing of descriptions, names and balancing them could have gone to a different direction like the AI or other factions... Was it that hard to simply merely copy the Seleucid battleline and make other factions richer...
This mod will prove that when you want to enlighten the population you can do it but only without the publisher imposed Hollywood darkness...

Hellenes

Hellenes and Idomeneas,

I see both of your points. I submit to your arguments. Intrinsic motivation always outperforms extrinsic motivation.

Regards

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Originally Posted by jerby

what was the major bug?
btw CA screwed up on many points, lack of research in history and lack of programming

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sorry, that thread got deleted, as is typical not just of CA's behavior but also just the shoddy features of ezboard.

i'm talking about the loadgame bug. here's a new thread on it. hopefully it will last a little while longer.

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=23486.topic

that is really dumb, i'm not an expert. but that is dumb, well what makes i dumb is the hardcoding that makes it impossible for you(eb) to fix.

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Originally Posted by jerby

that is really dumb, i'm not an expert. but that is dumb, well what makes i dumb is the hardcoding that makes it impossible for you(eb) to fix.

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well i'm not too hard on the programmers and testers themselves, as individuals. i can see how something like this could slip by them. i can also understand that keeping things hardcoded protects their intellectual property. what i cannot forgive however, is how either activision or CA themselves are limiting themselves to only one real patch and that's that, plus their atrocious consumer/public relations. i can only hope sega might help them put out another patch, but realistically i'm not holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

well i'm not too hard on the programmers and testers themselves, as individuals. i can see how something like this could slip by them. i can also understand that keeping things hardcoded protects their intellectual property. what i cannot forgive however, is how either activision or CA themselves are limiting themselves to only one real patch and that's that, plus their atrocious consumer/public relations. i can only hope sega might help them put out another patch, but realistically i'm not holding my breath.

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Tai they keep things hardcoded to sell the expansion... Why do you think they decode them in the expansion? If they tried to "protect" their intellectual property they wouldnt decode them at all, so they CAN decode them in a patch but the money/publisher wont let them...
I understand the programmers and designers, they do it for money so if the publisher says: "Make the "egyptian" mummies!!! Those dumb@ssess out there have been treated as idiots by holywood so many times lets keep them in their darkness!!!"
Its the ENOURMOUS FAILIURE of the educational system that leads to ignorance and the domination of false beliefs...

Hellenes

how is "keep things hardcoded to sell the expansion" NOT an example of protecting their IP?

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

how is "keep things hardcoded to sell the expansion" NOT an example of protecting their IP?

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Well if they were afraid of getting hijacked by a hacker they would keep them hardcoded forever...Now why they open them in the expansion? Maybe because they feel competing with the modders? But on the other hand they have this nice ONE real patch policy to keep Blizzard and other more customer friendly companies happy...

Hellenes

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Originally Posted by hellenes

on the other hand they have this nice ONE real patch policy

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well, whatever the case about the closing/opening of the code, the above point is what's important. how a game of this complexity is given such a low level of support is appalling.

anyway, this is getting off topic...

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Originally Posted by hellenes

Well if they were afraid of getting hijacked by a hacker they would keep them hardcoded forever...Now why they open them in the expansion? Maybe because they feel competing with the modders? But on the other hand they have this nice ONE real patch policy to keep Blizzard and other more customer friendly companies happy...

Hellenes

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There's a second patch out, if that's what you mean.