On improving diplomacy

Simply put, I think diplomacy would be much improved if it gave slightly more indication as to what the AI might accept for any proposal made by the human.

More often than not when the AI refuses an offer, the AI will simply answer with a "No". This can be very frustrating to deal with as it doesn't give any sense of the bargaining aspect that we all crave from RTW's diplomacy system..

Human players want to know whether they are wasting their time and should stop talks immediately or whether the opponent might agree to sometime if the right offer was made.

To this there should be more feedback than simply a resounding "No". I appreciate there is a 'what will you offer?' option, but more often that not they'll offer nothing in return. In those days money and concessions would always be desirable, and therefore, AI replies should be slightly more detailed even if asking prices would be ridiculous. At least then the human player knows where they stand and won't waste time bargaining when there is no bargain to be made.

Regards

I'm quite puzzled about the AI's approach on diplomacy from time to time.
Here's a nice anecdote from a recent Greek campaign:
Julii General:
Demand: Give us 180 Denari. (Spare a dime, bro'? ~D )
Offer: Accept or we attack.
Reply by Dionysus the Murderer:
Demand: Give us 10.000 Denari
Offer: Accept or we will attack.
Reply Julii:
We're not afraid of your threats etc....

~:confused:

Where's the point in asking for 180 Denari? Need a peasant unit urgently?
But I agree, any development can only help the system, although not everything is bad about it. Sometimes the Ai makes good decisions and alliances.

R'as

BTW: 500th post. :jumping: ~;)

Here are a few suggestions:-

Marriages between factions as part of alliance offerings. (As per MTW/VI) This would only apply to certain factions such as kingdoms and principalities.
The Roman factions and Greek/Macedon factions would be some of the exceptions.

Friends of Rome Status.

Friends of Rome was a diplomatic status offered to some of Rome's allies during the First republic for support during campaigns or where protecting them from enemies was in the Empire's best interest. Or where exclusive trading could prove very lucrative to the senate. In the game this might be a diplomatic mission objective the senate could set where the main benefits went to the senate and not the player. This would increase the amount of income for the Senate. Failure to comply with this directive could have financial penalties - also payable to the senate.

Taking this further, failure to comply with or failing any Senate mission should
have consequences other than Senate dissapproval. A small/medium fee or fine payable to the Senate would make Senate missions more consequential while providing the Senate with more income.

When I had beaten the living daylights out of Gaul so they were left with their last province (after they attacked me)

Me: Ceasefire.
Gaul: Ok, Give us back every settlement we have lost in the war and pay us 2,500 tribute over 6 turns.

me: Look your in no position to make any demands pal... You really want to die don't you?

(next turn)
gaul: we're under attaaaaack!!!

:dizzy2:

Originally Posted by The_Emperor:
When I had beaten the living daylights out of Gaul so they were left with their last province (after they attacked me)

Me: Ceasefire.
Gaul: Ok, Give us back every settlement we have lost in the war and pay us 2,500 tribute over 6 turns.

me: Look your in no position to make any demands pal... You really want to die don't you?

(next turn)
gaul: we're under attaaaaack!!!

:dizzy2:

If you get another faction into such a perrilous situation why would you offer a ceasefire?? Surely you should be able to give them a hard choice such as Defeated Nation Status or Total Annihalation. Defeated Nation Status would last for a number of turns say 20 or 30 with finacial penalties and be unable to go to war with you for the term of the D N Status. Total Annihalation is self explanatory. This might prevent so many factions from dissappearing from the game. Add into this something like Cultural Hatred. How this works - certain factions would fight to the death rather than accept Defeated Nations Status (eg. Carthage/Rome). Other factions would be more likely to accept Defeated Nations Status rather than Total Annihalation (Gaul/Rome)

Cultural Hatred could be fixed from the start or change as the game progresses dependent on the things that happen between factions during the game. Cultural hatred would then also effect all diplomatic functions between factions. Carthage would not/ be unlikely to entertain Diplomatic approaches from Roman factions. Sending a diplomat would then run the risk of diplomat execution, which while not common certainly happened in that period of history. Wether your diplomat survives could then be related to Diplomatic ability.

:duel:

Well what I left out was that I tried the Protectorate status as it was a mission from the senate...

No matter what offer I laid down on the table all I got was a Braveheart speech that "freedom is too precious"...

it irritated the hell out of me because not matter what i said, and no matter how generous I was I couldn't get them to be a protectorate, and all I ever heard was this pathetic speech from them.

So I immediately offered a creasefire afterwards out of frustration, and thats when they gave me that shocking demand!!

Anyway before the misison was about to expire, I removed them. mission cancelled.

The whole Protectorate thing is seriously non-working. I think CA are aware and are working on it.

The whole diplomatic AI is seriously non-working if you ask me... As Egypt I was allied with Numidia, I sent them a couple of cash gifts when I had money to burn.

Now how did they repay my generosity? Oh yeah, they blockaded my port!! :furious3:

Selling map info for cash is the only good thing about diplomacy. Everything else rarely works right, even when you shower them with gifts.

I hear you.

The potential for this part of the game is huge. Just doesn't work hardly and won't without some major overhaul from CA or some of the Modders out there. Some of those guys are really good.

~:)

My favorite as Parthians and having swept the map for 55 provinces, taking all of Greece and moving into Italy from the north. Brutii, at this point holding only his 2 cities Italy proper lands a small army and diplomat in Greece and demands "accept or we attack" 55,000 dinari and 7 cities in or near Greece!!!!
Now let me think about that!!!