England Heir Problem

For the past two England games I have experienced problems with the English throne succession.

I'm always doing fine until Richard I appears. Then all the other heirs are "de-heired" and all Richard does is produce a few princesses.

In the last game I made sure every Prince was married early, but this didn't stop Richard from blazing the scene and not producing any heirs himself.

Before the above two games I never had problems. So what am I doing wrong? And can I fix the situation? Richard usually lives quite long, and in my last savegame I he is 50 and his brother is 47. But I know Richard won't produce heirs anymore (and John doesn't seem to be very active either) so what can I do?

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Originally Posted by Ash

But I know Richard won't produce heirs anymore (and John doesn't seem to be very active either) so what can I do?

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I'd suggest Viagra ...
Nothing you can do, that said, save the game yearly and if he dies, launch from the previous year, eventually he'll have to produce. I had a Danish king producing sons on one game well into his 70's. I was actually cheering him on every time I saw the message at years end, but that said, the visual image is disturbing.

You can, of course, cheat. If you enter

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.unfreeze.

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in the campaign map a heir will be born when you hit 'end turn'.

Another option is killing the King. There is a chance that a number of princes will appear when there is a new monarch, if he has been married for a number of years.

Otherwise, there is nothing you can do. Though, I doubt it is Richard's fault, it may just be bad luck. I once lost an empire because the King died the year before his son matured. Now that was frustating, especially since I had forgotten to save!

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Originally Posted by Ludens

You can, of course, cheat. If you enter

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.unfreeze.

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Otherwise, there is nothing you can do. Though, I doubt it is Richard's fault, it may just be bad luck. I once lost an empire because the King died the year before his son matured. Now that was frustating, especially since I had forgotten to save!

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Yeah well that happened to me the first time 'round.

Richard died 3 years before the heir could mature, and reloading couldn't prevent it for some reason (I thought the patch would've solved the problem but it didn't).

I'll try to load up the game a few times and see what happens. Otherwise I'm cheatin' cuz it's the second time the game screws me.

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Originally Posted by Ash

Richard died 3 years before the heir could mature, and reloading couldn't prevent it for some reason (I thought the patch would've solved the problem but it didn't).

I'll try to load up the game a few times and see what happens. Otherwise I'm cheatin' cuz it's the second time the game screws me.

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There is a number of actions in the game whose outcomes are pre-determined to prevent people from reloading until they get the desired result. For example if an assassins fails his assignment and dies reloading won't help because he will always die. This has been pre-determined, though I do not know when or how. I remember reading a post some time ago in which this was explained, but I could not find it. The (natural) death of a King works probably the same: reloading won't help, it was determined earlier. The patch doesn't solve your problem, it merely stops Kings from dying when they are 56 years old.

In civ3 there is a 'random seed' that is stored - that helps to alleviate the save-reload cheat. Might be the same here. The random seed is what the random number generator is using. Random events are determined using RNG so if the seed stay the same, so movements done exactly like before will give precisely the same outcome.

I'll try to load up the game a few times and see what happens. Otherwise I'm cheatin' cuz it's the second time the game screws me.
I had a problem with the English king dying the year before the heir matured , so I was using the save to practice different battles with different formations , then after one practice session the King lived , but by that time I was tired of playing England so I had started another campaign .

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Originally Posted by Ludens

The (natural) death of a King works probably the same: reloading won't help, it was determined earlier. The patch doesn't solve your problem, it merely stops Kings from dying when they are 56 years old.

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Actually ... I had this problem when I played England on my first monarch (England/hard/TD/early/MTW-VI 2.01). I saved every year and reloaded when he died until his heir was mature enough to take over. There was much re-loading, but I thought getting hosed on something out of my power so early in a promising campaign was unfair, so I was motivated. Re-loading worked fine for me.

What NEVER sems to work is trying to extend the life of an AI monarch. In my most recent game, I had just ransomed off the Byz emp to his last province in Cyprus. For various reasons I had to reload that year end 5 times (multiple CTDs, one mouse malfunction/USB bus issue, one being stalked by my wife) and EVERY year like clockwork the Byz emp croaks. I was crafting his faction as a trade mule (banishing former enemies to island states that have fortifications with no navy and small numbers of usefull troops and then invading and leaving before their forts fall to make peace and create a docile trade partner). I had to crush the rebels there to prevent any future faction re-emergances.

I save and replay stuff all the time when things get interesting. I make my campaign moves, save the game, end the year, save the results, then go back to play "what if". What I've found is that if you don't change ANYTHING and replay the game just as you did the first time, then agent stuff like assassinations, heresy trials, emmisary and spy stuff plays out exactly the same, while naval battles are completely random. Your land battles may occur on slightly different terrain maps, though the units, terrain types and seasons will be the same. The AI will make all the same moves it did the first time. But if you make even a slight change - like move some units in the backfield differently or make a different assasination attempt - then your agent results are very apt to be different. And if you make bigger changes - like invade different provinces or attack with very different armies - then the AI is apt to make a whole different set of moves.

(I'm playing a very drawn-out campaign as the Danes right now. The Hungarians attacked me unexpectedly and in retaliation and to take some heat off my Baltic provinces I sent an army of cheaper troops around back to invade Crimea. When I replayed the turn, I tried sending an army to Khazar instead - not a good tactical move but I was itchin' to try out my shiny new Swiss halbs on the steppe heavies garrisoned there. Every time I invaded Khazar the Turks - my ally - sent a HUGE army to attack as well - the Hungarians would retreat and then Turkey would make me ransom back my army, even though they were my allies in the battle. Yet if I don't invade Khazar then the Turks just continue their own war against the Hungarians on a different front.)

Interesting things are mentioned here. Perhaps I may be able to obtain insight in the MTW agent system after all.

Bretwalda, what exactly is a random seed?

Procrustus, I am aware that the AI takes a peak to see what you are doing before it moves its armies. But if you, for example, order two assassinations, end turn, reload, order the two assassinations again but this time you select another target for one of the assassins; are the results for the other assassin different?

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Bretwalda, what exactly is a random seed?

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Well, I am not a programmer, so I try to do my best on how this thing work (as far as I know...)

The computer calculated random number is not random at all. Computer is unable to do anything random (I mean if it functions properly). What it does that takes a value that is changing and calculates a lot.

The last time I programmed was with the good old C64 and like 15 years ago. This machine took the time variable and created random numbers from that. This also meant that if you zerod (or gave any value to) $time in your program then all the RND numbers in the program become the same all the time, no matter how, when or how many times you run the program.

Quite possible that games like mtw or civ are taking some time variable (at least at the beginning) to generate random result. Then they store the random seed and calculate from that. If this is the case then if you do exactly the same moves then everything is calculated in the same order and the results are the same. That applies for only those calculations of course that use this seed.

I hope that it is more understandable. Also, if there is a programmer out there could verify my thesis here, 'cos I am not 100% sure that all of this thing is correct...?

Ludens, IIRC M:TW doesn't all ways stop the reload deal. It just takes time for the assassin to succeed - depends on the percentages. I have tested this sort of thing before. Life expansion for Kings seems to be harder.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Interesting things are mentioned here. Perhaps I may be able to obtain insight in the MTW agent system after all.

Bretwalda, what exactly is a random seed?

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I think Bretwalda got it pretty right. I'm not a systems programmer, but I am a statistician and I use random number generators quite a bit. It's true that the computer doesn't really generate random numbers, it just picks them from a big list that appears random. Envision a very long list of numbers that loops back onto itself so that it seems infinite. The list is constructed so that if you repeatedly generate samples from it the samples will have the properties of a specifed distribution (uniform, normal, logrithmic, etc.) If you start in the same place each time, you get the same list of "random numbers" - therefore it is more appropriately called a pseudo-random number generator. A "seed" is just a starting spot on the list - if you use the same seed, you start in the same spot and get the same sequence of "random" numbers each time. If you choose a different seed, you start somewhere else. If you don't provide a seed, most random number generators will create one themselves from the system clock.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Procrustus, I am aware that the AI takes a peak to see what you are doing before it moves its armies. But if you, for example, order two assassinations, end turn, reload, order the two assassinations again but this time you select another target for one of the assassins; are the results for the other assassin different?

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I need to preface this by saying I haven't ade a careful study - just what I've observed while ambling through my games. But yes, if you pick a different target for one of your assassinations your other assassination results are apt to vary. That's not to say that they will vary, only that the may vary. A lot of this will still depend on the chances your assassin had of success - if his chances are low, then even if you "roll again" by switching some of your other moves around you still have a low probability of success.

Hope this helps some - someone please correct me if any of this seems out-of-sorts. Best,

Procrustes

Can you tell the name of the patch that allows your king to kive past 56 and where to get it?

Thanks :help:

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Originally Posted by Jamais Le Dimanche

Can you tell the name of the patch that allows your king to kive past 56 and where to get it?

Thanks :help:

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At the top of this page - right underneath the thread title - there is a link called "Files". Click on it. You get a big blue screen called "Welcome to the Takiyama downloads" with a bunch of links below. Click on the one called "Patches" and get the patch for the version of MTW that you are playing.

HTH,

Thanks for the explanation Bretwalda and Procrustus. I think I understand it now.

Thanks Procrustes. I myself am fifty-three and I'd like to feel that I gotta few more years left. ;o) Doge Dandolo of Venice sacked Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade when he was in his nineties and totally blind. Outside the scope of this game, Genoese Admiral Andrea Doria shipped out to fight the Barbary pirates when he was eighty-four and fwas fighting the French in his nineties. Watch out for geriatic Italians!

Merci

Jamais

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Originally Posted by Ash

For the past two England games I have experienced problems with the English throne succession.

I'm always doing fine until Richard I appears. Then all the other heirs are "de-heired" and all Richard does is produce a few princesses.

In the last game I made sure every Prince was married early, but this didn't stop Richard from blazing the scene and not producing any heirs himself.

Before the above two games I never had problems. So what am I doing wrong? And can I fix the situation? Richard usually lives quite long, and in my last savegame I he is 50 and his brother is 47. But I know Richard won't produce heirs anymore (and John doesn't seem to be very active either) so what can I do?

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Can I suggest an idea that's briefly mentioned in thee handbook:
Play the game in 'normal' mode or higher. Then take a very high ranking general, put him in a remote province, raise all provinces taxes sky high, give him plenty of troops, & then drop an emmissary on him to remove his rank. At the same time try spying on your king (Richard 1), and that should bring on a rebellion.
Now back the rebels, and with enough quality troops you should win. You now have a new king in the same campaign, & a new chance to produce heirs from him! Good luck. :scastle: