Can the trade forums increase SEA income?

Hi folks - pardons if this has been covered before, but -

When you increase the size of your (land-based) trading building, the description says that it increases the number of tradeable goods. Does this mean that it "unlocks" a good not formerly available, which might also be used in your sea trade for better profits?

My understanding of the trade system (including sea trade) is that the game always selects the "single best" routes your city can do, based on how many routes it's capable of, what goods you have, who wants them, who you can trade with, etc. Putting two and two together, it seems possible that the land-based forum might allow some better sea route, if it gives your city a new kind of good to trade by sea or land. But what the forum description might simply mean is that you now have +1 land-based trade routes available (like with port upgrades) - and it doesn't do anything relative to which goods are available from the province.

I recall someone did an in-depth tracking of incomes and found that increasing forum size increased income from neighboring provinces as well. But I can't find that thread now - I wonder if he (or anybody else) knows about this particular issue?

If I am not mistaken, all trade routes make more money (both land and sea) if you increase the quantity of tradeable goods, by any means. The special trade resources seem to be used for something else. I can't recall ever seeing a town exporting to another town that shares all the same resources. In fact, I suspect that's why Memphis doesn't seem to trade by sea with Petra, Bostra or Thebes. The only resource Memphis has is incense, and all three of the others have it too.

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Originally Posted by Quillan

...The only resource Memphis has is incense...

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Guess I'll have to mod in the Elvis impersonators resource then !

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Originally Posted by RedKnight

I recall someone did an in-depth tracking of incomes and found that increasing forum size increased income from neighboring provinces as well. But I can't find that thread now - I wonder if he (or anybody else) knows about this particular issue?

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Was it thread by Tamur?

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I suspect that's why Memphis doesn't seem to trade by sea with Petra, Bostra or Thebes. The only resource Memphis has is incense, and all three of the others have it too.

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Actually Memphis has Grain as a trade resource which it does trade with Thebes and then the surrounding cities, check the settlement details for the towns nearby... "Food Imports" will make a good chunk of your pop growth in Petra, Thebes and other cities in the area.

The whole trade thing is a lil confusing.

I wish I knew enough about modding to control the variables and explore the affect of each trade building. For instance I built a "Trade Caravan" in one city; the increase in income was sooo small, perhaps it was the effect of the pop increase over the time it took to build the structure; and I don't recall observing any "extra" tradeable goods coming on stream.

In fact, I would really like to see if any of the buildings increase trade ~:) I believe one thread (no idea where or by who) claimed that all trade increased relative to city size, with the buildings (dock upgrades excluded) having no real impact.

Hey all,

You guys might want to read my Economics Guide somewhere out there. Unfortunately, I haven't updated it in almost 2 weeks since I have no time to do the tests. I studied trades and incomes for 9 hours last week but found nothing significant to add. I've managed to do farming and trade building tests though, but it was too little for an update.

I think the trade effects are mutually exclusive. Meaning, paved roads always double land trade, highway by 50% etc. regardless of the land trade income. Sea EXPORTS increases for every upgrade of trade building. Sea IMPORTS are always dependent on the the region that is exporting, so it won't be affected. I'll post additional numbers when I do the update.

The equation is 20% Sea Exports = Sea Import.
So if Province X export income is 100 denari,
then Province Y import income from Province X is 20 denari.
If Province X increases Sea Exports, for example to 120 denari
Province Y now will get 20% (120denari) = 24 denari.

I'll see if I can do some tests today. ~:)

(PS. to therother: the base trade values in the folder you mentioned to me are really icky. The numbers don't match at all :dizzy2: ).

The market line gives +1 to trade for the lowest and +5 for the highest level. Trade temples similarly add +1 to trade per level. The port line also adds +1 to trade per level in addition to increasing the number of trade fleets per level. The caravan line gives +2 from the first building and another +1 for each upgrade.

As to how much +1 to trade is, I don't know. I think it is most likely a percentage increase as opposed to farmland, in which +1 to farm income is a steady +80 denarii per turn on average harvest.

Trade system dont really work as supposed (or promised) as I played Carthago and builded up Palma with hope to gain big money income. Palma has marmor resource, but they dont export it. They buy it !

All in all when went thru all my cities and their import/export I was confused. Didnt find any logic in it. Well they do generate some money, but better to leave them do that alone. Cant help that in no way other than just build what can be builded to trading.

Booring system. Builded for 5 years old players.

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Originally Posted by Quietus

(PS. to therother: the base trade values in the folder you mentioned to me are really icky. The numbers don't match at all :dizzy2: ).

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Well, okay, but what have you done, and why do you believe the numbers don't match? The numbers in there most certainly affect the value of trade routes: I've tested them, and others have changed them to make the game harder in certain mods.

PS I've started a thread to collate trade research here.

Edit: And if that isn't enough to get you to look at it, I've just answered the initial question you asked: "Can the trade forums increase SEA income?". For the answer to this question, and indeed how much it increases it, you'll have to click on the link!

Thanks for the many replies folks, including that new thread, therother!

Putting together andrewt and therother's posts, it would seem that the +1 means +10%. Thus in e.g. the sticky situation of the Nile countries, which have very limited sea exports, andrewt's post tells us that increasing the port size will still help some, since it increases income from the (lone) sea route by 10% per level. (Whether or not it's very cost effective is another question, but now, a simple math one.)

Therother, in the closing statement of the other thread, you said that the Dockyard had no effect on the land-trade buildings. If you get another chance, could you look a little more closely to make sure that e.g. the land-trade buildings don't also increase Dock (and other port sizes) income. (It sounds like you tacked on a Dock after messing with all the land buildings - correct me if wrong.) And you might also confirm in the process that larger ports don't somehow affect land trade.

I'm very liberal with your time - I don't mind voluntering you at all, I'm good like that, eh? ~:cool: ~:cheers:

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Originally Posted by RedKnight

Therother, in the closing statement of the other thread, you said that the Dockyard had no effect on the land-trade buildings.

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Okay, that's not what I meant. I was saying that building the Dockyard had no effect on the existing export routes - they were still at the same values, only a third route had been added. We expected an increase in the other two routes based on the description in the export_descr_buildings.txt file. But it might have been an aberration. I shall double-check.

The point of the edit was that the forum-style trader buildings increase land and export trade income by 10% of the base value with each level. It seems the quick comment at the end worked against that. Ho hum.

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Originally Posted by RedKnight

And you might also confirm in the process that larger ports don't somehow affect land trade.

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If I find time tonight, I'll have a quick look.