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Being myself from a region famous for it's mountains, and having ancestors which served in light infantry units specialised for fights in the mountains sincee the 18th century. I would like to hear your opinions about the various specialist troops since then. Would be really curios to hear what do you think about them.
Some questions:
a) Are there still special mountain units in the army of your nation?
b) What repututation did they earn, in which battles they fought?
Cheers
OA
a) No not in Ireland , though most units train for mountain warfare , especially the Rangers .
b)the Irish army doesn't do battles , but the Rangers had to go up the mountains to shoot all the mountain goats during the Foot and Mouth outbreak .
The best and most famous of the mountain troops , and with probably the highest number of battle honours would be the Gurkhas .
France does have excellent mountain troops, called "Alpine hunters" (chasseurs alpins). Though Ghurkas are probably even tougher...
the swiss the gurkhas and the finns all have fearsome reputations in my mind.
Well, I don't recall the Finns having any mountains, probably my hometown lies higher up than their highest peak. ~;) Still they had some of the best light and mobile infantry around, guys which would have been quite suited after a hard training to fight in the mountains. Same goes for Ireland ~:)
The Gurkhas are surly a sure bet, coming from the Himalaya, although I never heard of special mountain operations in which they were involved - does somebody knows more?
The Swiss are also surly a good option, although their troops were hardly ever tested in the last three hundred years.
The chasseur alpins have also a fine reputation. As all mountain troops they are a step above the standard divisions.
In any case who do you think were the first "real" mountaintroops in the gunpowder age came from? Probable locations are the Alps and the Balkans. I did some research on the web and all I could found where Tyrolean Jaegers/Sharpshooters, which served in such roles in the K&K army. Any other finds would be appreciated greatly...
Cheers
OA
the Swiss and the Austrian ones are tough
One of the most elite parts of the Dutch army (possible the most elite) is our Mountaineer's Corps (a rough translation), which is a bit strange since Holland is one of the flattest countries in the world.
I wouldn't really know where they fought, but they seem to have been involved in the Balkan wars positively...
~Wiz
The best in the region here are the saudi mountaineers, they are roughly 2000 men, and participated in afghanistan supporting US troops during the war against terror.
Note: Contrary to popular beleif, Saudia is not one big desert, the population live mostly on the red sea coast wich is composed of a long stretch of mountains (Aseer mountain range).
Yes, and then there is Yemen which seems to actually be quite green...Quote:
Originally Posted by faisal
~Wiz
Hm what I have collected indicates that the first battle and war-tested mountian units were indeed irregular Tyrolean sharpshooters around 1800. Using a organization of volunteer, free men which dates back well into the Middle Ages, consisting of the groups of able-bodied men called (Schuetzen) they were able marksmen. Every village simply wore their traditional outfit (Tracht), making it easy to identify for their fellow men.
In their fights against the french and their allies they used heavily the terrain to their advantage, ambushing frequently small detachments. Marching columns were broken up with small human-made landslides and markmanship.
The loose formation was a very natural thing, as swarming. They usually preferred the ranged battle, although sometimes they charged also the enemy, when victory was near.
Later one this men got integrated into the K&K forces. Their uniforms became wiedly copied.
Here is a more or less accurate depiction of the fighting style:
http://www.memoriapress.com/marshill...fthetyrol.html
An here the opinion of Memoirs of Baron Lejeune
Volume I, Chapter X , from
http://www.napoleonic-literature.com...Chapter_10.htm
"The sturdy inhabitants of the Tyrol, whose passionate indignation at their separation from Austria and incorporation with Würtemberg and Bavaria in 1805 was ever on the increase, waged war upon us from their mountain fastnesses with indomitable courage and skill, harassing us the more as they attacked us in the rear, and the insurrection even seemed likely to spread to the route by which our reinforcements were expected from France. The Kings of Würtemberg and Bavaria, the greater portion of whose troops were with us in Austria, were for a time very uneasy about the revolt in the Tyrol, where the news of our luckless defeat at Essling had been greeted with the greatest enthusiasm, no one supposing that we should be able to recover from it. The people indeed were so much emboldened by it, that a general rising took place throughout the whole of the Tyrolean Alps, the Austrian General Buol and the Marquis de Chateler doing all in their power in the name of the Emperor of Austria to foment discontent and spread the insurrection. Many able men, such as Andreas Hofer, Hartel, Arco, Speckbacher, Schmidt, Adel, and others, with the Capuchin monk Haspinger, placed themselves at the head of the insurgent peasants, giving their orders in the name of God and the Holy Virgin, and fighting with extraordinary courage. Several French detachments were taken prisoners on their way across the Tyrol. Innsbruck was retaken, the Bavarians were repulsed, and the enthusiasm of the Tyroleans over these few isolated successes, achieved during the months of June and July, rose to its highest pitch."
Cheers
OA
Alexander and his Macedonians were a mountain tribe and very able in the mountains. Once, they came upon a stronghold called the Rock of Soghd which was thought to be impregnable. The defenders told Alexander to leave and return when his men had grown wings. Undeterred, Alexander put up a prize to the men who reached the top of a section of wall which was assumed to be unscalable by the defenders and thus, undefended. Through the night the Agrianians and other skilled climbers toiled away on the icy cliff, driving metal pegs into the cliff face and using ropes when they could. In the morning the defenders were so astounded that the men had scaled the cliff that they surrendered.
I always thought the ancient Macedoinians had a reputation more as a "horse people" (at least compared to their Greek cousins, who for the most part found the idea of cavalry alien) than mountaineers...?
That aside, any folk who live in woodlands, mountains, desert or similar difficult terrain are going to make pretty good light infantry in the same terrain, for reasons that should be readily obvious.
Nah !
Singapore don’t have mountain troops cause we don’t even have a decent hill to speak of.:embarassed:
But we do train our men in urban warfare cause more than 90% of Singapore are cement ! ~D
they were "mountain barbarians" to the Greeks, but Philip and Alexander put a lot of stock into horse breeding - so they became known for their Cavalry that wayQuote:
Originally Posted by Watchman
By what I've read what they did was introduce a system of land ownership not entirely unlike the much later feudal fiefdoms, which allowed the raising and maintenance of the Companion heavy cavalry. For their own reasons the Successors couldn't keep the setup, and duly had cavalry shortages to the considerable joy of the Romans.
But then, Greece isn't exactly lowland either now is it ?
...you know Col, I think we're straying a little too much off the topic...
Well I was primaly talking about men armed with rifles; The success of those Thracian javelinmen are well known to me, but I was still a nice reminder ~:)
Shadow, how high is your highest hill? 140m. I'm living on the northern hemisphere on 1200m; Due to climatic reasons 2000m is usually considered the frontier of agriculture of resistent old crops...
In any case I made a short development now, devided into timeframes:
19th century: Local groups from mountain regions fight in special light infantry units, often with elite status.
WWI: Many nations have more or less special mountain units. Chasseur Alpins, Alpini, Kaiserjaeger, Alpenkorps
The Dolomites and the Southern Alps are place of the most bitter fights. High up in the mountains nature is bitter and logistic a huge problem. Fights range from snipers to close combat, from artillery pieces to thrown stones. Personal courage and endurance are key to survive. The Austrians can hold the first wave of the Italians thanks to the quickly raised 70.000 Standschuetzen of Tyrol, which consist mostly of to old and to young men (ranging from 74 to 15) and other regular troops. Their knowlege of the mountains and their high spirit make them vital in the first weeks, the far larger Italian army can be stopped and delayed until more regular troops arrive. The type of combat is highly selective and usually the quality of the single men is the decisive element.
More to come
Cheers
OA
Oleander Ardens,
Singapore or The Lion City which, nearly two-thirds of the main island is less than 50 feet (15 metres) above sea level. Bukit Timah Hill the highest summit, has an elevation of only 164 metres or 538 feet & clinging to its slopes are Singapore's last vestiges of Primary Forest. Which have been protected for decades as a Nature Reserve.To the west and south are lower scarps with marked northwest-southeast trends, such as Mount Faber (more of a park). The eastern part of the island is a low plateau cut by erosion into an intricate pattern of hills and valleys. :book:
We don't grow our only crops but import them to feed our people cause there is no land left for crop planting as most of it has bring taken up by housing (4 million population),secondary industries & tertiary industries. ~D