Hungarian question

Yes I read the Hungarian guide. I still have a question though about them.
I'm playing them in Early on Normal without mods.

Most people agree that Venice and the Byzantine lands must be conquered ASAP.
But how do people manage this? Yes I know that the Italians give up Venice (and accept peace) if you get there in the first few turns.

But how do people manage to conquer Byzantine lands without some other Christian faction attacking Hungary? I do have alliances with Germany and Poland, but the Sicilians usually attack me as soon as I have Greece.

Yes I build boats but they're expensive and take at least 3 years to build. I need all the money for my army!

Or is the trick to attack Venice and the other rebel lands (Moldavia) first, and later the Byzantines?
But if I don't attack early Byzantine usually will conquer lands in the steppes, creating a two-front war which I can't afford.
The muslims are usually not much of help, Egypt is usually neutral (sometimes at war though far away in Antioch) and the Turks get squashed quickly by the Byzantines.

So if the experts please could enlighten me I'd be grateful...

I usually read guides after I do it on my own first, to see if I did some of the same things taht other people did. Im not saying you have to, but i would recomend just playing it and trying it on your own.

Well I did try it without a guide and got boxed in by everyone in the end.

Ive gone the hungarians a few times, dont follow the guides like a religion they are just an insight to what the situation can be in a certain order of events. The way things work out in guides isnt what happens all the time.

When i go hungary, i conquer wallchia and moldavia and if i can make enough cash attack the poles or waituntil the holy roman empire starts to collapse which it usually does and take lands from them.

Its boring going hungary though i wouldnt attack byzantium if they are strong, they are more concerned with the turks and egyptians, just take any opportunity that arrives a german civil war is common thats what i suually wait for.

In the beginning of the game there is little what horse archers and szekelys can't do... They can shoot up any infantry that is not supported by archers, just have to dance around them the appropriate way...

Economic wise it is vital to set up trade and accumulate florins to your treasury. It is important to know that you can't build everything everywhere and you have to time your developments so that the most important things get built first... Also if there is need mercenaries are useful, but disband them, if you can build you own troops of the kind, or mercs are not needed anymore or if you run deficit and there is no vital need for them... This way money gets spent to what you really need: tech up.

Base your forces on mounter archer units. The Hungarians have all kinds of units don't suffer from a lack of any type. Get Kiev to counter the Horde. Train you generals in the uprisings of the Steppes (like Khazar). Don't leave any building there that the Mongols could use. (Destroy everything, even) Don't let any empire become too big except Hungary :wink:

Yes the first few years as a Hun can be dicey. Get the rebels provinces and pay close attention to what the Byz and Itals and Poles are doing. Get an alliance with the Poles and keep enough troops along the northern border to dissuade the Poles from trying anything. When the Itals or the Byz turn their backs to fight their enemies, stab em while they are stretched then. Don't overbuild and spend all your cash until you have the little triangle - Venice - Kiev - Constantinople filled with that lovely deep purple.

The secret is to mange your cash flow and I get that triangle then build up. I build ships in Moldavia AND the Balkans as soon as I have a secure defense. Once that trade rolls in you can really take off. Efficiency in keeping army costs low and wisdom in making guvs high acumen guys is necessary.

Bret is absolutely correct - a few cav archers can do more for you than I ever thought - unitl I started to rely on them.

The Hun campaign is now my fav, due to the dicey-ness and the fantastic unti selection.

ichi

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Originally Posted by Ash

Yes I read the Hungarian guide. I still have a question though about them.
I'm playing them in Early on Normal without mods.

Most people agree that Venice and the Byzantine lands must be conquered ASAP.
But how do people manage this? Yes I know that the Italians give up Venice (and accept peace) if you get there in the first few turns.

But how do people manage to conquer Byzantine lands without some other Christian faction attacking Hungary? I do have alliances with Germany and Poland, but the Sicilians usually attack me as soon as I have Greece.

Yes I build boats but they're expensive and take at least 3 years to build. I need all the money for my army!

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You don't have to rush Venice. When was the last time you saw an early era Italian army that was scary? Urban miltia? pfft. The byz are *sometimes* a different matter. Let them go ahead and string themselves out on the steppes. That works in your favor. Do not fear a two-front war if you have Kiev and ships in the black sea.
Rush instead for Serbia-Moldavia-Kiev and take all the time you want to build farms and ships, with a reasonable deterrent. With farms up to 60% and mines fully built, finance shouldn't be a problem even without trade, I have fought 3-front wars (Italy, Sicily, Byz) on hard and prevailed.

Hmmm i try and avoid war with established powers aslong as possible, when i take modavia and kiev i have enough trade profit to keep me steady, theres no point conquering to much in the east because the mongols will ruin it for you anyway, waiting for a power to fall some might think is risky but odds are with you chances are either byzantium or the holy roman empire will be crushed or crippled with civil war thats when hungary can start to expand.

A strong byzantium can play in your favour as already mentioned letting them overstretch themselves on the steppes is a good thing for hungary but they can be a buffer state to the mongol horde and you might be able to get a peace treaty with them, stranger things have happened lol.

Whatever you do try your best to have lands some distance away from your homelands because its highly unlikely if the mongols decide they hate you lol which they probably will, that youll be unable to hold them off for long, some provinces far away atleast means you can fall back on something. With a strong navy sicily is always a very good target.

Quite important, that even if you take the steppes, destroy everything before the Horde comes. Scortched earth. So the Horde has to build up everything from zero. They can only use their troops they brought with them but nothing else. This way the mongol threat is smaller and you can keep them at bay at the rivers of Kiev. Anything Novgorod kills is good for you, though don't expect anyone putting up much fight. But whatever they garrison the new territories with is decreasing their main force and shortens the battles you have to fight...

I just finished a LONG campaign as the Hungarians. It was a lot of fun at first, but after a while, it really became a mad dash just to hear the victory speech.

If you're starting in early, you should be able to take most of the steppes and develop them long before the Horde arrives. The Horde comes in 1230. Have a nice welcoming party together of Halberdiers, Chivilric spears, LOTS of missile units (pavise x-bow, arbs, pavise arbs), maybe a couple of chase units (like knights or steppe heavy cavalry). The great thing about the Hungarians is they get some awesome generals. I couldn't remember where the horde arrives, so I built 7 armies for each of the 7 steppe provinces and spent literally 3 days battling it out in Khazar, Muscovy and Georgia. With 6 & 7 star generals, your missile troops get pretty accurate. Just don't forget to build as much moral boost as you can in your Halb provinces.

None of this answers your initial question though, getting started against the Byz. Well, I hate to break this to you, but your early position isn't strong. Luckily, the Byz have enough enemies you can fly under their radar for a while. Katank would tell you to blitz into every province you can, but I didn't even take Venice. I like to role play, so I made early peace with the Italians, the Poles and the Byz. I tried to with the HRE, but they wouldn't. They attacked Hungary from Austria and Poland/Italy kicked their ass on my behalf. This leaves you to focus on some very rich provinces out East. Get to Khazar as quick as you can and try to stay off of everyone's list. Remember, people don't trade with you if you're at war with them, so until you've got enough cash, focus on that trade empire.

hey man, I always play as teh hungarians, I love them. I usually do v ery good with them.

At the begining do not rush! I build farms and get rich. Once u get rich make a nice army, of armored spearmen archers and men at arms. Then attack either venice or byzantine, I usually attack the byz until I reach constantinople (because of the money) then, I border myself there and expand east until I reach france :)