rome vs egypt

what makes up your armies (after manus reform) to take on egypt in the deserts?

i've just been attacked by them in greece and have good defensive position and have blockaded ALL of there ports, im about to send armies of assassins and spies but am still deciding what units to put into the armies.

i have problems taking on those damned archer chariots, if i send cavalry they run and shoot them to bits and if i send archers they ride over them. :furious3:

legionaries have loads of armor so im considering taking an archer/gladiator army:

2 legionaries (to protect onagers)
4 gladiators (low armor and bonus against chariots!)
5 archers
4 onagers
4 cavalry (not sure which, low armor or heavy?)
1 general.

anyone else have a good army/tactic to take on egypt?

Ive just started to fight against them and they ARE tricky indeed.

Theyre quick and potent. A phalanx seems to immobile to swivel and face them in time for their charge. Theyre very good marksmen. A caviltry charge against them will be successful but only with heavy losses. Same goes for infantry. Maybe, its one of those units you just have to sacrifice troops to get rid of.

They make large targets, perhaps onagers are the most effective against them.

The Onager/Archer combo works very well.
Far too well in fact, makes for a boring game, so I just use 'typical' armies consisting of 60 % legions, 30% auxilia, 10% cavalry

im happy to watch onagers....

its like 10 pin bowling.... oooooo looks good... come on keep going! yes! STRIKE!!!!

As above: My Roman Armies in Eygpt never went anywhere without at least two onager units firing flaming ammo.

A few units of Arab horse archers can work well if considered expendable troops. But basically onagers and missiles, throw everything but the kitchen sink at them.

My typical Roman army facing the incomprehensibly potent Egyptian army usually goes as follows:

4-6 sword infantry (the best I can afford) to deal with Egyptian melee troops. I usually set them to "fire at will" for a deluge of pila.

4 archers to shoot down annoying Egyptian chariot archers (use flaming arrows to spook the chariot horses, plus the graphics are awesome). You're going to take losses from counterfire: deal with it.

4 spearmen (mercenary or auxilia or triarii) to protect the archers from nasty Egyptian cavalry and charging chariots. Again, you're going to take losses.

2 cavalry units to run down cowardly routers. Be sure to protect them from the Egyptian cavalry, or they'll get swamped by superior numbers or routed by chariots.

As many of the best artillery pieces I can fit in and still have a general. Again, flaming missiles are the key.

I always make it a point to stamp out the Egyptians as quickly as possible (unless I'm playing the remote "barbarian" factions), or they'll take over the entire Eastern Mediterranean and become a serious headache both on land and at sea.

i thought heavy armored stuff like urban legionaries suffer penalties in the desert cos of the heat.... how bad are these penalties? insignificant to change to using gladiators or mercanary units of some kind?

gladiators vs axemen... looking at stats i think gladiators should win but if archers get near them they're mince meat......

i was about to unleash my first post army earlier but my game crashed as another battle was about to start. :furious3:

i will let you know how it goes if the game will continue this time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord Preston

i thought heavy armored stuff like urban legionaries suffer penalties in the desert cos of the heat.... how bad are these penalties? insignificant to change to using gladiators or mercanary units of some kind?

---

Not enough to warrant any thought in my expereince.

I did employ mercenaries but mainly as a quick means of replacing losses and to provide some additional cavalry, skirmish and of course whenever possible elephants.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord Preston

gladiators vs axemen... looking at stats i think gladiators should win but if archers get near them they're mince meat......

---

I never use Gladiators in battle and it annoys me when the AI does. Normally if I see any I make them the focus of my missile fire. Gladiator v 240 Arrows= Dead Gladiator.

If chariots archers are causing trouble - don't give battle against them. Conduct your war through sieges - thus negating pretty much most of their effectiveness, whilst maximising the effect of your hard hitting infantry.

I agree with the sieges. I used to siege cities and never storm them, because I wanted to force the enemy to engage me. It's always easier to play defensive (the old 3:1 advantage) and massacre the enemy with onagers and archers, whether with flaming ammo or just normal stuff...

One problem with flaming ammo is that it tends to hit my own troops way too often. To avoid that I have to place my front line very close to the onagers, too close to be in range.

Because I always play defensive, heavily armoured troops seem to have no problems in the desert. Besides, the enemy is going to tramp all the way to meet you...

As the Romans, it's superior firepower that's going to win the day, so I'd go with legionaries rather than gladiators. By the time the enemy get close to your lines, they should have suffered such losses that a volley of pila will cause them to rout.

Somebody Else has hit the nail on the head... don't fight the enemy on their terms.

If I had - or chose ~:) - to fight chariot archers in the field I didn't really change my army mix much at all, adding a few extra legionary cohorts since I knew I'd be taking a lot of extra arrow casualties.

I mostly use a simple line-up of legionary cohorts backed by archer auxilia plus a few heavy cavalry, either Legionary or Praetorian. I don't bother with spear-armed troops since I find the legionary cohorts generally quite capable of handling cavalry. I sometimes take along some mercenaries as arrow sponges or, in the case of camel units, dedicted chariot hunters.

Admittedly, by the time I get/have to fight the Egyptians I usually have lots of highly experienced, teched up troops, led by very good generals, which may account for my overall successes against the Egyptians. Plus they'd already be weakened by my covert and economic attacks.

EDIT: Ooops, forgot the tactics, although really to call them tactics is a bit kind, they're about as skilled and subtle as a brick and I doubt they'd work well against another player. I aim to destroy the chariot's supporting troops, almost ignoring the chariots themselves unless I get the opportunity to alpha strike a unit with my entire line of archers or have camels to send against them. When it all goes the plan, the chariot units are generally left as the last Egyptians on the field, but without any arrows left to use against my remaining troops which usually heavily outnumber them at this point.

Ok. I spent a good six hours yesterday fighting against wave-after-wave of Egyptians, so ive picked up a few things.

A good combo of troops i use:

50% swordsmen (Legion cohort is very sufficient).
10% cavilry
20% archers
20% onagers

The Egyptian axemen do pack-a-punch so you need something that can hold out. Legionary cohort easily do this especially if you have them "fire-at-will". The barrage of pilum upon such a poorly armoured rag-tag is impressive. Dont bother using light cavliry, get about 2 units of heavy, like Legionary Cavilry. Use them as a last resort defence to throw off chariots or infantry overlaps. Onagers are the key weapon here. Pulverise the chariots then dilute the axemen. Dont expect your archers to remain dominant against the Eqyptians because they will be facing Pharoes Archers and a unit (forgot the name) of archers which have 1/3 more men than the average archery unit.

Oh and one more tip. 3 units of Legioanary cohorts will not withstand a frontal charge from 1 unit of light chariot archers.

I don't like to use siege-gear in field battles.
I found out that those camel-riding-mercs work pretty well against the Egyptian chariots. Chariots are still classed cavalry and since they use horses they'll be scared by camels. It even helps to only have one unit of Bedouin-Camel-Archers nearby to cause a morale drop.
Another possibility is to take 4 units of your strongest melee cav and mop those chariots up.
Throw in a camel unit and those wheelchair guys rout in seconds.
After the chariots are gone, run those archers down with cav.
The desert-axe-men are no match for post-marius legions. If they make it through the archer fire (take 4 units and put them on the flanks of your line) of your aux-archers they'll face another pila-volley and finally melee.
Game over! ~;)

R'as

It's actually really easy.

Mostly archers, some legionnaires. Maybe one unit of cavalry (remember that cavalry suck in the desert anyway) and then stick your legionnaires in a nice semicircle around the archers.

Most of their army will be annoying missile troops, which will try to get close enough to shoot, but your archer auxilia have much longer range anyway most of the time, so they get totally annihilated. If they try anything else the legionnaires will take care of them

What I like to do when faced with big Egyptian armies, though, is retreat to a city where I can use the archers from the city walls....they will be completely destroyed by the towers/archers, then they'll send another army, then another, until they only have crappy leftovers, and then you send out your armies to finish them off! Easy enough....

edit - remember that the Egyptian armies are mostly cavalry/chariots which makes them useless against city walls!

mmm maybe i shouldn't of assumed the penalties would be bad, i think they should be but if you all say they arn't then thats good enough for me.... urban cohorts, pratarean cavalry queued up... poor egypt!

i think the reason i had problems with egypt and the chariots was because i was using my armies that i designed for the greece war. (anti-phalanx) just took alexandria with my most modern army. i got attacked while seiging them.... battle was on a bridge.... 2 ownagers(spelled correct) and 5 archers protected by 6 legionary infantry, the rabble that made it across didn't get past the pilium

I forgot to mention, in my game I modded the "desert axemen" armour value down a lot. I mean look at them, they are bare-chested and the game gives them more armour than a legionnaire wearing chainmail! They still get their shield bonuses etc. though....this makes them more vulnerable to arrows I suppose

The heat effects and stamina effects don't work properly. They are reversed. Not sure how this applies to armour though. It is completely porked at the moment.

Wardogs Vs chariots is an excellent way of tying up/routing chariots.