Does anyone think onagers are overated?
Does anyone use them in mass like 6 units an army.
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Does anyone think onagers are overated?
Does anyone use them in mass like 6 units an army.
they are certainly not overrated-i am playing Carthage-i was attacked defending a bridge crossing by not one but 2 stack Egyptian armies (one commanded by a general one not)
Though outnumbered 2-1 i had a veteran army in the field commanded by my 7 star faction leader...i also had 3 heavy onagers
I directed my onagers and archers to the main force assaulting the bridge and turned my heavy infantry (Sacred Band) to the rear to counter the reinforcement threat. My cav units and elephants were to be a mobile force
The main stack egyptian army assaulting the bridge never got across in force-i set my onagers to 'Use Fiiiiire!!' and they caused devastation amongst the Egyptians-i ended up annilhilating the Egyptians almost to a man
There is no way that onagers are overrated-they have got me out of many a tight spot
The only problem I see with them is the fact that when they use fire, they become EXTREAMLY inacurate...
They cant evean hit a CITY sometimes!!!
does experience help accuracy?
Very much...Quote:
Originally Posted by Delwack
hmm maybe that would explain why I can never get them to shoot anywhere straight... but getting them exp in the first place must be a pain
When I do use onagers in a field army, I usually use between 4-8 units of them. You usually don't get more than 6 volleys off on average, so the shots have to count. When I do use fire, I make sure my line is right freakin' next to the onager crew; I mean in their laps. I'm not sure how an onager misfires right in front of itself, but it can. I suppose the fireball just rolls out.
To gain experience, I usually station some onagers with any troops that are in oft attacked forts. They will quickly build up XP and then can be used in any other armies when needed. Ex: As Scipii, I had Southern Italy and faced off against a strong Julii in Northern Italy, and a stronger Brutii just further North of them. I blocked my borders with onager/archer/cavalry staffed forts, and as expected, they were attacked frequently. When I was ready to move North, I disbanded the forts and had plenty of heavy artillery that knew what they were doing. In the right circumstances, 6-8 units of triple gold chevron heavy onagers are ballistic experts.
I also like onagers, and I try to build them in cities with temples that give experience bonuses. Whenever I set them to use fire, I try to keep them very close behind my main line, to minimise the risk of my own men getting fried.
Onagers with experience really have better accuracy? I was always under the impression that it only improved attack/defense stats. Can anyone confirm this empirically?
hmmm...i wonder if onagers are useful in defense...balistas are horrible...but onagers...can they fire over city walls? ~:confused:
KiOwA, I think better attack means a better chance to kill, so the bigger this chance the better the accuracy. I think it works like this, when told to use fire the onagers get a serious attack penalty that reduces their accuracy, as they gain experience they become more accurate, even with fire.
This is the way I always explained this to myself, correct me if I am wrong.
I have found onagers have an upsetting ability to see my hidden units. After all why attack a group of a 1000 legions in a nice neat tight square when you can spend all day fireing flaming rocks at 10 supposedly hidden arcani crouching in the trees off to the side. :furious3:
well good for you, really
me.... I cant use much of those onagers, I know those fire is devatating but
DAMN... my comp gets a LAG when I switch those fire modes, hell i cant even use my archers fire mode i would have been fun to watch my enemies run with a flame in there BUTT.....( or do they really have flaming butt???) ~;)
Well, i'm going to be all 'holier than thou'.
I've used Onagers in one campaign - in a few civil war battles - i had three units, and they totally and utterly blasted the pants off the roman opposition. Not helped by the fact that the silly people decided to stand and let me hit them repeatedly with flaming death.
Anyway, the holier bit - don't use onagers on field battles! They allow you even EASIER wins than usual, are silly, daft, ridiculous, imbalancing, unrealistic... (could think of more adjectives, but can't be bothered).
Go onto MP and play a few games with people you don't know - the number of times my army has been toasted by 2 units of frigging 'artillery'....
It's true that onages seem to be a bit overpowered, especially as the opponent's army have the incredibly bad habit of just standing on their hilltop or whatever "good strategic" position they may have found... They just don't react.
Thing is that when I set my onagers on firing the flaming ammo, their efficiency tends to decrease dramatically, which is (given their being overpowered) a good thing.
I've even toasted a few of my elite units when I was moving my army towards the enemies position and forgot to stop launching the nuclear rocks.
So I guess you better avoid onagers if you don't like "easy" battles.
In MP onagers are just not done, just like elephants, but that's just my humble opinion.
Well of course you are entitled to your opinion about onagers and elephants. My opinion is that if units were used in period warfare i.e. onagers by the Romans, then there should be no "shame" in using them in your armies. Having said that, I feel that balance is important. I frequently deploy a single onager unit, occasionally 2, and rarely, a maximum of 3. I don't think they are any more unbalancing than say , Egyptian missile chariots, or Spartan hoplites. Friendly fire is a real concern, and onagers are vulnerable to any unit that can reach them. Sure people can abuse them by using too many, but I'm talking about SP mode.
A couple of nights ago, I had a very interesting battle with the Egyptians. I was outnumbered 3:2. My 2 onager units helped to force Egypt to charge their infantry and break up attempts for their Pharoah's bowmen to mass for a barrage. I discovered to my shock that their archers could shoot fire arrows and burn up the onager unit! I won the battle, but the onagers accounted for only about 100 enemy kills. I don't think the onagers are any kind of overwhelming weapon in field battles, but they have a limited utility there. The true value of onagers is for attacking cities in the same turn as the attack is first made. You can assault immediately and capture the city before the enemy can try to reinforce or relieve a siege.
Elephants are similar in that they have a limited role to play. The right tactics used against elephants quickly make them irrelevant, and in fact, they can become an instant liability. Again, I believe it is best to use only 1 or 2 units per army to keep an element of realism in the game. Yes, Hannibal had elephants, but he also had a majority of other units in his army. Elephants are a specialized morale breaking unit, and onagers share that role.
I refuse to use some units because they seem like fantasy creations like Arcani, or Head Hurlers. Such things were just put in the game to appeal to a portion of the gamer market. There are Amazons too, but they are just an Easter Egg. But I really think onagers and elephants (both in small doses) have a proper place on the battlefield.
I once used 3 units of onagers for defence inside a city with normal stone wall, they managed to cause heavy casualties and even killed the enemy general but with one inaccurate volly they destroyed my gates !, actualy that was agood development since the enemy ( i dont remember who they were) started to advance and i could shoot them with my archers on the wall - the battle was won.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaindew
i think they are good for defence but u should be careful with them, u can allways cease fire