How to cause the "epic battles"

In my latest Brutii Campaign, I have accidently caused the biggest, most spectacular world war I have ever witnessed with RTW. All it took, was diplomacy, a good amount of denarii, and some patience.

After I'd begun to conquer the greek peninsula, I decided to put my money to good use for the Roman Empire. What I wanted was for the mother of all Civil Wars to occur. To get that to happen, I'd need to give some serious economic aid to the other two blundering factions who seem to go nowhere when they arent player controlled, the Scipii and the Julii.

Due to my constantly overwhelming income, I began by giving both factions a nice base tribute of a few thousand denarii for a few 100 turns. Then, whenever I found I was starting to get greedy generals again due to too much surplus funds, I'd spread around my cash with some healthy grants to both sides.

All of a sudden, these two factions just exploded into action, and began to actually conquer like crazy. After they had the ball rolling, I looked for some more distant empires that could do with some help, the Germans, the Scythians, and on a whim, I also chose the Parthians. A large deal of cash grants later and all three are going buck wild on their neighbors.

Was I satisfied? Hell no, I wanted to see what I'm really made of, I wanted to have a good chance of my butt getting kicked to the stone age. So I started giving money to the Egyptians. Then, once they started to get going crazier then ever I reinitiated my conquests and got to about 40 provinces when BOOM, civil war time. Now I had full stacks of Scipii and Julii duking it out with me and each other, the Germans have taken northern Gaul and southern England and are raiding northern Julii settlements, the Iberians took advantage of the Gauls crushing defeats and took two provinces from Gaul AND the two Carthaginian colonies. The Egyptians are just rampaging through Africa and the Middle East, while the Scythians are rumbling with the Parthians after having over run most of the Dacian lands. The Parthians have taken over Armenia and a good deal of what used to Pontic lands and are sandwiched between the Scythians and the Egyptians, but are STILL holding on to what they got. Carthage, Armenia, Pontus, Gaul, Greece, Macedon, Thrace, Dacia, and the Selecuids are just gone. The Britains are content with what they have left it seems and Numidia is down to a single desert province.

I have never before faced battles like these. It's utterly insane. You people HAVE to try this. Even when I lose, I'm still smiling, because the battles are all just so freaking cool.

bah i gave macedon and the seleucids 10's of millions macedon attacked me the bastards and the seleucids never used it i think the were still running on levy armies a waste of money epic battles oh sure but forces built from my money noop

This actually works!! OMG, I prepared for big battles like this:

- lock your borders with forts, build up some military to compensate the graph of others. Small early wars for good provinces are good, but keep your total below 12-15 for a challenge.
- keep peace, not alliances, if romans declare war offer alliance to one of them (the others will offer cease-fire) and break alliance
- build up your cities to level 5, all of them, using the peasants train & disband to get population around (easy on setting: Huge)

Combining with Darius' advice:

- Give insane amounts of cash to other empires as your cities level out. Especially those you'd like to conquer.
- Build up your military, and BOOM, Total War!!

Sounds like fun, but I am far too aggressive to try this. I would have trouble waiting for people to use my money and I prefer to get a little difficulty boost by fighting on 4 fronts far from any good unit producing cities. Sounds like fun though, maybe once I am done with my current campaign I will try it.

Wow! ~:eek:

What, you people only just realised this? I've been doing this for a while...but yes, it is fun and it is brilliant, and it is probably the only way to make the game live up to its title of Total War. And anyway, it's nice to start world war one a few thousand years too early.

When I have had lots of money they have always gone into the weak faction's pockets to stem the evil tide from other bigger factions. That can, though, backfire.

Aye, especially when that small faction is one your borders. Rather than using the sea of money in the fight against silly AI evil, they use the money against true evil. You.

Sounds interesting, I think I am going to try this. I guess my planned campaign as the barbarians or the Julii is not going to happen, I need somebody rich "click begin new Brutii campaign" :charge:

No no no, click "begin new Greek Cities campaign". They maybe hard at first, but once you get them going, they are amazing!!!

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

What, you people only just realised this? I've been doing this for a while...but yes, it is fun and it is brilliant, and it is probably the only way to make the game live up to its title of Total War. And anyway, it's nice to start world war one a few thousand years too early.

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no i dont just realised it i just never thougt it was important enough to mension

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

No no no, click "begin new Greek Cities campaign". They maybe hard at first, but once you get them going, they are amazing!!!

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I made I rule for myself, I ain't touching any phalanx nation until they are officially bug free. I am not taking any chances, I don't want to get frustration instead of fun.

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Originally Posted by Ar7

I made I rule for myself, I ain't touching any phalanx nation until they are officially bug free. I am not taking any chances, I don't want to get frustration instead of fun.

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Don't do that (but ok sincethe patch is near), they are still grand and fun.
The Greek Cities have hoplites en masse, and hoplites are less brittle than the phalangites, so they are much easier to control. The Seleucids have those amazing Cataphracts and Companions (not to forget elephants of three types and chariots), so they are fun too. Egypt is much more than phalanxes as are the Armenians and Pontus. So don't deny yourself the pleasure.

I am at the moment pumbing money into germania, and seluicids. it doesn't seem to work, but i it keeps me away from the 50 000 limit ~:)

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Originally Posted by Kraxis

Don't do that (but ok sincethe patch is near), they are still grand and fun.
The Greek Cities have hoplites en masse, and hoplites are less brittle than the phalangites, so they are much easier to control. The Seleucids have those amazing Cataphracts and Companions (not to forget elephants of three types and chariots), so they are fun too. Egypt is much more than phalanxes as are the Armenians and Pontus. So don't deny yourself the pleasure.

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I know they are fun, that's why I want that future campaign to be perfect fun, if I would play today and loose a huge battle due to the phalanx....I would be pissed...so I rather wait

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Originally Posted by Ar7

I know they are fun, that's why I want that future campaign to be perfect fun, if I would play today and loose a huge battle due to the phalanx....I would be pissed...so I rather wait

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I felt this exact same way forever, but once I tried the Selecuids I was sold.
Phalanx aren't half as troublesome as they are claimed, assuming you take them off of 'gaurd' and form them in a line where there are no gaps between units. The default line for phalanx units is idiotic. I know that sounds like micromanaging, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

I was very, very apprehensive before I tried a phalanx using country, too. I recommend if you do try, use the Seleucid as their powerful cavalry make up for having slow phalanx units for infantry. Also, they have a ridiculous amount of cash, once you take Jerusalem and the few Arabic provinces to the east. I'd say even more than what you get by taking all of Greece.

Yeah, I think mthe Seluecids are one of the best factions once you get them going, plus if you get sick of micromanaging phalanxes you can eventually churn out roman style legionairries and two of the best cavalry units in the game. Add elephants to taste. :charge:

Hmmm....I don´t like the idea of giving away money....but what if we could mod the game so that there is a lot more money for the AI to go around....?

Or alternatively we could set the unit prices (and upkeep) to a fraction of the original and set the building time to 0 ? This would mean a game of epic proportions where the MANPOWER of each nation would be the crucial part in determining their military strength (money would determine quality and manpower the quantity).

Mmmm....sounds VERY good.

I just need to get me one of those new Geforce 6600 GTs.....yes...

I suggest you get a 6800GT instead of the 6600GT, the 6800GT is the best card for the money and if you have the extra for it it is a much better investement.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

I felt this exact same way forever, but once I tried the Selecuids I was sold.
Phalanx aren't half as troublesome as they are claimed, assuming you take them off of 'gaurd' and form them in a line where there are no gaps between units. The default line for phalanx units is idiotic. I know that sounds like micromanaging, but it's not as bad as it sounds.

I was very, very apprehensive before I tried a phalanx using country, too. I recommend if you do try, use the Seleucid as their powerful cavalry make up for having slow phalanx units for infantry. Also, they have a ridiculous amount of cash, once you take Jerusalem and the few Arabic provinces to the east. I'd say even more than what you get by taking all of Greece.

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Damn you, damn you all ~D

After these words I tried the phalanxes in the custom battle and noted that If I keep them as an army group they stick to their positions. So you tempted me and now I will start a Macedonian campaign as soon as I will have a chance :duel:

This is all in Vanilla RTR right? The epic battles that is...I'm such a money grubber that I've never even considered giving any away; can't wait to try it out though.

i use the 4.1 rtr mod so the phalanx has no gap between them at the start of the battle

To get big battles you just need to give the AI factions a chance to develop. In my first few campaigns I did my usual blitz and they were a walkover. Now however, I only recruit front-line troops (eg legionaries for Romans) in cities with no culture penalty, and I refuse to exterminate cities.

The combination means that conquering armies stay depleted until I can send reinfocements out (or send them home to refit) but end up having to garrison new provinces, so it's very hard for an individual army to take provinces quicker than once every five to ten years.

That in turn means that the AI can get on with what it wants to do: as far as I can tell, it likes to build up a fairly solid base and then expand fairly cautiously. Give it time and it can get very strong.

I rarely see AI armies less than a full stack, and there are lots of them. They can also be very experienced: I just lost a full stack to a stack of triple-silver Thracians, though to be fair my next (more balanced) army took a terrible revenge (and Tylis).

It doesn't actually seem to slow the campaign down much: you do less in the first 30-50 years, but of course you get more turns per hour.

Cheers,

Pell.R.

I have started a SPQR campaign and have funnelled a ton of cash into Carthage, but to no avail.... They were attacked by Spain and I took down the invaders and gave the provinces to Carthage but they have not advanced much at all, I think they may be busy with the Egyptian powerhouse so I think I will give them Spain when I am done conquering it, but not yet cause I need somewhere to build and stage troops.... I am using south east coastal province right now to stage a huge bribed Scipii army.....
Everybody should try the SPQR campaign because you can start civil wear first turn and bribe romans and then turn them into important members of your family or governors of their old lands... I love beating down the romans from the inside out... :duel:

Be patient, if the AI is using the money for buildings, you wont see much of a troop increase on the field. An AI that hasnt expanded in a while however is perfect.

The downside to giving money is that they start conquering and expanding, thus diluting their army once more. But if you have a nation cornered, you can create some nice battles this way. I would wait with giving money until 230 BC or so.

Taking the Brutii, I conquered most of Greece. I then built forts and garrisoned with some levy troops, defending all my borders. I then began raking in cash, and building up my cities. Building two armies, one for Italy, the other for Greece, they were set for the big ones. I then began laying money down with the Julii, the Scipii, and for fun, began giving money to the Germans. Soon, Gaul was being torn to shreds by the powerhouses of the Julii and the Germans. I then began giving money to Egypt, give them more then they would ever need. In twenty three turns, they began pushing up Anatolia. Its like steroids! Blown up armies! Anyway. I begin building my fleet en masse, something to cover the Bosphorus, and the Italian Adriatic. Once done, I still had some money to spare, so I gave some to the Scythians. However, the other Roman powerhouses began to get more power, so I began to prep my Italian army. Soon enough civil war broke out. Taking my Italian army, I began to draw in more troops, and soon had three full stack troops. Marching in sequence, the battles were awsome.
My strategic battles, were this. At the begining of a turn, my first full army, mostly heavy and light cavalry, attack the enemy force. I strike for the enemy cavalry first, and then retire to minimize casualties. I then take the second stack, (full of legionarries) march in to find a weakend, force of heavy troops. Taking the cavalry that is with the heavy troops, I swing the flanks, and hit with heavy troops. Heavy fighting whittles away at thier strength until they are almost gone, but can still fight. Retiring, I then move my third into battle. Mostly green recuits, they earn brownie points for fighting, enemy troops, almost destroyed.

Anyway, Germany invades Julii territory, and Egypt is getting stronger. doing my sequence, I add mercs sometimes to give a little skrimish action. I can alos keep moving my troops up. However, a Scipii fleet slinks over to Taranto. And my new fleet. In a heady battle of !132! ships, the Scipii somehow manage to scrape a victory. Sailing in, they land a sizeable army. Terribly angry at the turn of events, I call up a small army of legionaries, and mercs, and then fight the Scipii. In a fierce, and large battle, my troops managed to take a victory. Man what a day.

Playing Brutii, I tried to support Julii effort giving them 10,000 to 30,000 per turn after my greek provinces (4 in total) started to rake in money... I have been doing this for more than 70 years now. It's 190 BC now and Julii still own only the original two provinces + Corsica and the Gauls are breathing down their neck with huge stacks in Northen Italy... Weird... What's even more weird is the Senate has started to send me "do it or you'll encounter our displeasure" missions... Even though I own only 6 provinces in total...

Yea you have to wait for the right moment to start providing them the funds. I've begun to get the timing down pretty well since it seems the AI factions go through cycles of activity. First they build up their infrastructure, then they build up their military, then they conquer, then they consolidate. Not all factions start on step 1, such as the Brutii who tend to start off by immediately heading into the greek peninsula. As soon as you see them getting their armies together, send over some money. The sudden influx means that they can extend the army build up time, which in turn forces them to conquer more, which results in them gaining a far greater income and troop production areas. However should they get the money during the infrastructure or their consolidation phase, they will instead take more time to develop their cities with the money rather than their armies. So while they would be able to eventually launch their assault, it will take a while longer before it occurs.