Horde Strategy

Boy those guys sure move across the map fast. It won't be long till we're butting heads in Hungary or maybe Bulgaria. Stupid Byz has been in a 30 year war with me and refused to take my cease fires several times. Now they're getting squeezed from me (Italians) from the west, Polish from the North, and The Horde from the east. Poland seems to have retreated into a tight circle in the hopes of defending. Byz is clueless and has most of its armies squared up against me. Meanwhile Horde is swarming and swooping their lands.

Anyway, I noticed most of the horde units are horse units. So would fielding a large force of ILI be a good strategy to match up against them. I have about 20-25 ILI units total on my eastern front (Hungary, Serbia, and Greece) and have just started introducing Chiv MAA (5 or 6), Arbalaestors (3 or 4), and high era Royal Knights (about 3). The ILI hold their own very well, and many of them are +1 and +2 armour, extra earned valour, etc.

I figure I have about 3 or 4 more turns before I'm face to face with the Horde. So what troops should I pump out over these next turns to give me the means to make a good fight of it?

Good spears like ILI, halbs, billmen or other units with good defense stats (especially against mounted units) and/or AP ability are a good match for the non-missile GH cav units. Take the GH cav charge head-on with the spears and flank with the AP units.

The GH HA units are best countered by foot missile units (arbs, xbows and normal bows). If you can place your arbs in an elevated position and protect them with your spears, these guys can really rack up some kills. Pavise arbs/xbows units are especially good in such a missile-unit-shootout.

CMAA units and other 'ordinary' foot units are perhaps not so hot in this scenario.

Make sure to have a few fast cavalry units to chase down the routers (Mounted Seargeants or even Valoured up Horse Archers will do nicely). Then you can reap the rewards of ransoming them back to the mongols, who will have a massive treasury :charge: .

Be careful of those routers - the Horde troops are sturdier than the ones you are used to, I've gotten slaughtered a couple of times when I left my positions to chase routing GH warriors only to have them turn around and eat my men alive. Also note that many of their troops have bows.

I also follow the advice that was given above. ILI are great troops but have some heavy swords ready as GH warriors will chew them up if they make contact. I use halbs whenever I can against the horde - they are armored and very effective against their cav and their heavy infantry. Get some arbelasts if you can. Fight defensively - use elevation and especially woods - they will try to pepper you with arrows, draw you out of position, and will eventually charge. Woods will protect you from arrows and take the advantage away from their cav.

When they first appear, do they show their entire hand (i.e. their whole army) or do units continue to trickle on the board over several turns. I'm trying to gauge when to strike because ideally I'd like the Byz to take the first brunt (so far they have been retreating without a fight), that way both Horde and Byz are weakened, and then I come in and swoop the provinces. So I'd like to make an estimation of how far they can progress before Byz will start to turn the tide, but I want to make sure I know what I'm going up against.

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Originally Posted by weegee

When they first appear, do they show their entire hand (i.e. their whole army) or do units continue to trickle on the board over several turns. I'm trying to gauge when to strike because ideally I'd like the Byz to take the first brunt (so far they have been retreating without a fight), that way both Horde and Byz are weakened, and then I come in and swoop the provinces. So I'd like to make an estimation of how far they can progress before Byz will start to turn the tide, but I want to make sure I know what I'm going up against.

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if it were me I wouldn't want to know. prefer the surprise.

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Originally Posted by weegee

When they first appear, do they show their entire hand (i.e. their whole army) or do units continue to trickle on the board over several turns.

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I believe that it's their entire army that shows up at once. If any new units enter the board, their numbers are insignificant.

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Originally Posted by weegee

So I'd like to make an estimation of how far they can progress before Byz will start to turn the tide, but I want to make sure I know what I'm going up against.

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It's unlikely the Byzantines will ever turn the tide; in fact, they may never commit significant forces to fighting the Horde (strategic AI can be stupid like that). However, the Horde is unlikely to conquer the whole Byzantine empire either, since it doesn't know how to properly deploy its forces for both conquest and occupation. Frequently, one big Horde army will move about illogically, leaving few soldiers (if any at all) to occupy new conquests, and opening the door to peasant revolts and loyalist uprisings. In this way the vast numbers of Horde troops can dwindle slowly over the years, while the Horde's conquests stagnate.

The one thing I'd like to remind you of is this: you have little reason to fear the Horde. If you follow the tactical advice others have given (armies of halbs, arbs, ILI, and a few cav using high ground and forests), your armies will crush the Horde without much trouble. Be prepared for some frustration when attacking, since MHA can be quite difficult to pin down, and you will face a lot of them. Also, guard the flanks of your units extra-carefully, since a cavalry-based enemy can more easily threaten you from multiple sides, and a morale collapse will be disastrous for you.

Happy Horde hunting!

I have often ended up in the "half-square" formation when facing those heavy, mobile hordes - especially if the province I'm defending isn't very forested. Looks for a copse of woods with a little elevation.

I played a handful of turns last night and just to update you guys, my strategy ended up working out quite well. I sent a bishop to offer an alliance with the horde and to my surprise they accepted with this note: (paraphrasing) now is the time for us to attack mutually or something like that.

So I poured troops into Const. from Greece to hit the Byz. While hitting end year, the Horde feinted light attacks at Wallachia and Bulgaria from Moldavia, tying up any reinforcements the Byz may have sent to Const.

The battle for Const was a slaughter and about 500 men retreated to the Citadel. Meanwhile Bulgaria lay ripe for the taking, so I poured troops from Siberia and whatever else I had left in Greece. I hit end year and now I see the Horde coming to join the fun as well. I had a much bigger army, so I wasn't worry about losing the province. I deployed for battle and the Byz were set up on a long hill. I waited for the Horde to come up, baited the Byz and then let the Horde go in and take all the casualties. Byz and Horde went at it for about 5 minutes and eventually the Horde general fled (coward). But they did enough damage where my ILI and Fuedal Knights could clean up and take the victory.

So now, the year is about 1260 if I remember correctly. Spain controls western France, Iberia, N. Africa and much of middle east. I control pretty much the middle of map including eastern France, some of the former HRE provinces, a lot of eastern Europe, and all the Medit Islands. Poland has got a handful of provices, as do the Horde. France actually still lives on in Scotland ~:eek: The English have a few provinces and Turkey, Eggys and Byz are down to their last 1-3 provinces each. Looks like it's me against Spain for a big show down. The funny thing is once one of us strikes our economies are going to go to crap because all our ships are interlaced throughout the seas, so it's basically going to turn red and cut off all our trade.

dumb question...

Does the Horde always show up/start in the same province?? (I think it was Khazar in my game)

thanks

Every game I've ever played the horde showed up in Khazar, but on some campaigns, it also showed up in as many as 4 other provinces as well.

Before going to war with Spain try taking awhile to build up your navies massively, especially where he has ships concentrated, and then pounce by land and sea at the same time. If you have sufficient naval superiority you should be able to mop up most of his ships in just a few turns, leaving you with mastery of the seas.

Naval combat isn't one of the most exciting features of the game, but it's one where it pays to plan ahead.

thanks ajax. How do my fire galleys match up against his barques (I think that's the ship he has)?

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Originally Posted by weegee

How do my fire galleys match up against his barques (I think that's the ship he has)?

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AFAIR, Firegalleys has an attack stat of 3 (can't remember the defense stat). Barques has attack 1 and defense 2, so with equal command rating your ships ought to win an attack (they may however loose from time to time - there's a random element involved in sea combat). But the command rating (amount of stars) of the admiral in question will also affect the outcome. If you attack barques with a command rate of one or more higher than your ship(s), you will probably loose.

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Originally Posted by weegee

How do my fire galleys match up against his barques (I think that's the ship he has)?

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In the appendices at the end of Froggy's total unit guide there's a list of all the ships with their respective stats. Not as much to them as most other units, but what there is you can find there. The biggest difference, though, is going to be your general's rating, like Mikkele said, and sheer numbers. Try to have a 2:1 or more ratio wherever you can, and they'll have a tough time beating your fleet. :surrender:

-----------------Range----Attack-----Defense---Speed----Strength
Fire Galley---------1---------3-----------1---------2----------0
Barque------------1----------1----------2---------3-----------0


Don't have a clue what range and strength mean, the others are pretty self explanatory