Byznatine Prince - Troll or Not to Troll?

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A) I am an arrogant bastard.

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It's fun for me. I usually disagree with most people. I think of myself more developed metally (sic) then most people. Sexier too.

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A. Saturnus, Pindar and Rosacrux Redux are all very intelligent yet very polite so I do not see why intelligence should be an excuse for pettiness and ill manners. It should in fact lessen the excuse of not knowing better and being truly intelligent someone should be able to self-nuture themselves to a higher level despite their external environment or their genetic nature.

If you are afraid of forming social relationships and are instead doing pre-emptive strikes so you do not get hurt that is an understandable and normal state of a teenager.

However if in your arrogance you think that superiority allows one to be brutal to those you perceive as lesser beings then I can see no difference between your path and the majority of others that have predated you. True intelligence is not just a gift to an individual but to society. Those with the greatest intelligence should be a shining light for humanity not a troll.

If you are as smart as you say you are. Try being polite to others and having quotes and references for your statements.

Otherwise if you wish to fence your wit be prepared :duel:

Hmm ... while what you say has value Papewaio, do you really think this approach will be received well? Perhaps it might have sparked some introspection if it had been presented privately, but having patronized Prince publicly ... I don't think it will have the effect you want.

I have seen more individuals directly criticize Byz over the last couple of months than any other patron in the time that I've been here. I, too, think Prince could stand to be quite a bit more considerate. I just ignore him when he's behaving in a manner that I find offensive (unless he's violating the rules). Frankly, I find his obnoxiousness to be so cliche and stereotypical of teens his age that it doesn't bother me nearly as much as some of the high-browed adults here who are at least as snide or condescending as Prince is--they're just better at masking their insults with words or rhetoric, or by being roundabout and indirect in their attacks.

I don't think it bodes well for the Org to have people publicly criticizing other patrons--no matter how much they may deserve it. I have read some things in this forum that were extremely critical of Prince, to the point of being personally demeaning (even if his behavior warrants sanction, I don't think it's right for anyone to be harangued publicly).

Before anyone starts pointing their fingers at me and screaming "hypocrite," note that in the recent past I have deiberately and with intent publicly criticized/verbally attacked a staff member that I felt had, one time too many for me, openly criticized other patrons in a manner which I felt was improper. Note my warning level. We all have our moments, and I'm certainly no exception.

I suggest that people use the Ignore function if consistently annoyed by a patron. I suggest that public criticisms and complaints about a patron to staff be focused on specific violations of Org rules, or, sent to staff via PM to avoid public defamation.

And, I suggest that all staff make a concerted effort to set a good example at all times. Walk the talk.

I was clearly being sarcastic when I made those comments. The line "sexier too" should have been a dead give away.

Sometimes I do flame others for not agreeing with me though, usually when their opinions are so far out. I don't do that anymore though. Also if you go to that same thread you'll notice that I apologized to BKS for patronizing him. It wasn't anything that bad compared to what i have said before to other patrons, so I wouldn't go as far as to call it a flame even.

Just a suggestion: use smilies or text to indicate sarcasm, intended humor, etc. While our intent seems obvious to us--the posters--it is not so obvious to readers unless there is some visual or text indication. This often leads to easily avoidable misunderstandings.

As far as quotes and references go, I disagree with the majority here. Many book "scholars" like these because it gives them something upon which to base a counterattack in an attempt to discredit an opinion. Express your opinion. It has always been my view that one does not need to attach the opinions of others ("experts," etc.) in order to have a valid point. There are those that will automatically dismiss a position if it is not supported with quotes and references--particularly if they don't undertand or agree with the point at first read. I submit they have spent too much time playing the Uni game. What I do is provide supporting references if someone contests a particular point that I've made. This helps to avoid the nit-picking counterattacks that will most often occur if you provide quotes and references up front. There are many here who circle like ravenous vultures, divebombing on quotes and references with combative delight ... .

Ouch, you typed his name wrong.

Sorry, couldn't stop it. ~D It's a teenage nature.

Wait! I apologize! Don't issue my death sentence! Don't call me infidel! No, not the Guantanamo! I hate mosquitoes! :help:

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Ouch, you typed his name wrong.

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What?!?! I'm furious! :furious3:

Not troll
but he can be annoying sometimes
But can't we all?

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Originally Posted by TogakureOjonin

Hmm ... while what you say has value Papewaio, do you really think this approach will be received well? Perhaps it might have sparked some introspection if it had been presented privately, but having patronized Prince publicly ... I don't think it will have the effect you want.

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Erm, what was patronizing?

Most of Pape's post, imo ... you do not see it as such?

From Dictionary.com (I'm lazy):

pa·tron·ize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr-nz, ptr-)
tr.v. pa·tron·ized, pa·tron·iz·ing, pa·tron·iz·es
1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor.
2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis.
3. To treat in a condescending manner.

I was thinking #3. Now, as I said, I think Papewaio has very valid points. It was the manner in which the points were delivered (publicly, and the choice of words used) that seem patronizing to me.

Why not call out his behavior for the community to see? Are we not all affected by his comments? If the young man has the stones to post thread after thread in the Watchtower begging to get his privelidges back in the different forums throughout the community, he should be man enough to handle a little public ridicule addressing his public displays that are not positive to the harmony of this community. Spare the rod, spoil the CHILD.

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Originally Posted by TogakureOjonin

Most of Pape's post, imo ... you do not see it as such?

From Dictionary.com (I'm lazy):

pa·tron·ize ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr-nz, ptr-)
tr.v. pa·tron·ized, pa·tron·iz·ing, pa·tron·iz·es
1. To act as a patron to; support or sponsor.
2. To go to as a customer, especially on a regular basis.
3. To treat in a condescending manner.

I was thinking #3. Now, as I said, I think Papewaio has very valid points. It was the manner in which the points were delivered (publicly, and the choice of words used) that seem patronizing to me.

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I usually figured things like cutting and pasting word definitions was a little condescending.
:winkg:
I don't think it's condescending at all. I haven't read the original thread, but since it apparently involved three other members I think it makes more sense to post it here than PMing everyone involved.

I read it again and don't see the patronising part. Perhaps because it is worded as if it is being spoken directly to just BP and not the rest of the people on the watchtower?

Papewaio was wrong to start this thread, seeing as my behaviour is way better then it was a little while ago. I guess he did read the post about me being sarcastic though so I forgive him by default.

TogakureOjonin: Don't worry I don't feel he patronized me. I do however feel that people (in real life even) judge us teenagers all the same, in a very stereotypical way. Even when Im right and they are wrong(100% sure the are wrong).

Ok so I am not the nicest person in teh world but I don't want to be. I'de rather be myself then conform to some norm that exists. I feel strongly about pretty much everything so of course people are gonna be pissed off at me. Sometimes people agree with me wholeheartidly however. I like to call them my best friends ~:) .

Papewaio has just as much of a right to start this thread as you have to act rude and insulting, get warned, get banned, then post in the Watch Tower whining about your status. Try to learn from your experiences. BTW, you are not acting in a "very stereotypical way" of any teen on these forums. The teens on these forums generally act with maturity and decency, far from the bahaviour that you have exibited over the past few months you've trolled these threads.

Not troll.

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Not Troll... Orc maybe. ~:joker:
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Originally Posted by Proletariat

I usually figured things like cutting and pasting word definitions was a little condescending.
:winkg:
I don't think it's condescending at all. I haven't read the original thread, but since it apparently involved three other members I think it makes more sense to post it here than PMing everyone involved.

I read it again and don't see the patronising part. Perhaps because it is worded as if it is being spoken directly to just BP and not the rest of the people on the watchtower?

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It wasn't my intent to patronize you, Proletariat. It seemed you didn't take with my use of the term "patronizing," so I grabbed a definition to make clear what I meant. That's all.

I'm not "taking sides" people. I just had a point to make and I did my best to make it. If you don't agree, fine and dandy. I just don't see ganging up on a kid publicly as a good solution to the problem. Do any of you really think it will modify behavior for the better? When I was a teen, such behavior on the part of adults and holier-than-thous just fed my fire so-to-speak, and I devised even more clever ways to be maximally irritating, within the "rules."

Enough on this for me folks. My point has been stated.

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Originally Posted by TogakureOjonin

It wasn't my intent to patronize you, Proletariat. It seemed you didn't take with my use of the term "patronizing," so I grabbed a definition to make clear what I meant. That's all.

I'm not "taking sides" people. I just had a point to make and I did my best to make it. If you don't agree, fine and dandy. I just don't see ganging up on a kid publicly as a good solution to the problem. Do any of you really think it will modify behavior for the better? When I was a teen, such behavior on the part of adults and holier-than-thous just fed my fire so-to-speak, and I devised even more clever ways to be maximally irritating, within the "rules."

Enough on this for me folks. My point has been stated.

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I didn't think you were patronising, I just thought it was funny. My only point to that is it isn't anyone here's job to modify his behavior. IMHO, it's simply up to the mods if his comments are breaking the rules or not and what warning level he should get if he has. Anyway, I guess it's enough for me on this too.

Hmmm, to troll or not to troll? That is the question.

Hmm, since Im such a non-conformist I choose neither. HA! what do you confomists think of that? :duel:

That you're as much a conformist as anyone else, you rely on the conformists so you know what to do ~;)

i really love it when people use the excuse of conformity to justify their actions.
its like emos who think they are individuals

What's an emo? :embarassed:

Guys, can we stop bothering TosaInu with our little grudges? This is the Watchtower, not your 2005 Trolling Contest. Everything in this thread could have been dealt with by PM.

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Originally Posted by dessa14

i really love it when people use the excuse of conformity to justify their actions.
its like emos who think they are individuals

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Great, emo bashing ~:rolleyes:

i think there are two kinda contradictory but both valid ideas being represented in this thread. one is that public censure of a patron may not have the intended effect and may backfire and cause resentment towards the moderaters for public humiliation. another point is that some would like to see more transparancy in the machinery of org disciplinary action. and if someone mibehaves in public, then they should be censured in public. so that if they misbehave, or if a patron is eventually banned for life, as has happened in the past, people can look at the series of steps that lead to it and see it, as opposed to it looking like an arbitrary and power trip fueled decision by the moderators.

aren't you conforming with the non-conformists by not conforming ?

never understood the whole emo bashing thing, isn't it based on music choice or something ? or just liking the most popular music, i reserve the right to bash britneys legion of 6yr old fans though ;)

byz could word his posts better, use of smilies would help as well, preview your posts before you read them and try to see if it would be insulting, not that im perfect in that respect.

Alright, whats an emo? ~:confused:

Making fun of Soly, BKS and Star Wars crosses my lines... :furious3:

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Alright, whats an emo? ~:confused:

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I think it's a scary form of music of a bunch of whiny people who just complain and think that they are cool... not sure, as I would never go near any sort of metally punky music.

Emo is emotional rock and people usually bash it to death.

Ok non-confomists are not confomists just because they join a category of non-confomism. Non-confomists are just being themselves so they are all different therefore not conforming to what society tells them they should be like. Are we clear?

I didn't read much into those comments when I saw them in the thread and thought they were sarcastic, and left them at that.

its certainly not worse than anything I have come to expect in the Tavern sometimes. (though most people there tend to fix ~D or ~;) at the end of such statements as an attempt to lighten them)

Not Troll.

Hey I just realized my warning levels down to 1.
Yay.
LOL lets not turn this into an Emo thread.
As long as he doesn't curse off or ruin the babe thread he's ok with me.