Announcing: Europa Barbarorum

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans!

We have some very exciting news for you this week. As you know, the Europa Barbarorum team has been conceptualizing the mod we wished to create since January of 2004. In September of 2004, we began to move toward making our grand vision into a reality. While we have always shared knowledge that can assist the modding community, much of what we have been working on has been kept out of the public view. The team feels that many of the conditions that initiated this no longer exist, so this is about to change.

First, we are sure you will be pleased as we announce that the upcoming beta, planned to be a closed beta, will in fact be open to the entire public. We expect to have a smaller group of individuals we have picked for their contributions to the mod in our public forums, or a specific skillset, provide more controlled and focused feedback. This smaller group will have access to future planned closed betas past the mod's first release. This open beta may possibly be in your hands within a month. *

Now, we would like to introduce you to many of the concepts that we have been hard at work on over the past few months.

Economy and population dynamics

EB is severely limited in the changes it can make to the economy, due to the hard code that surrounds it. We have to represent many things as abstracts. However, in general the population growth will be slower than in vanilla RTW, and the economy will better reflect the economic realities of the classical age.

- Trade ports will be limited in size based on the natural harbor present.
- Resources will be tweaked to better represent classical value, and distribution.
- Wonders will be removed from the campaign map (including the severly over-balancing faction-wide wonder effects). Instead, we will have unique, historicaly famous (and accurate) buildings and structures in many provinces.
- Income is being tweaked to, as best as possible, reflect a standing army ratio based on our research. That is, given a certain number of cities, a faction should be able to support a given size army.
- Individual factions will have individual economic effects per building. Tax rates and other effects will vary by faction, based on historical attributes.
- A complete new religious system will be in place, based on the principle of 'patron' deities, and including as much of faction pantheon diversity as possible.
- An entire new building system is being implemented, with much variety between factions.

Expansion and the military

The military is probably one of EB's brightest achievements. While limited by the 255 model limit, and the 500 unit limit, we are quite proud of our achievements. Aside from removing the ahistorical units, and the units sparsely used and not deserving of a unit or model slot, EB has researched and devised a complete new military for each of our factions. In addition, many groups which do not fall under the faction banners will be included as regional troops, many available to varying factions should their areas be conquered.

All unit recruitment is defined on a per unit basis. This will vary greatly between factions. Some factions will be more difficult to play than others, reflecting the way in which those factions saw conquest of other areas. In general, units will not be as readily available as they are in vanilla, and it will be more of a challenge for the human player.

Our fleet system has been in development for some time. The ship names we released are not going to be represented as individual ships, but rather navies that are comprised of different types of ships based on the faction that builds them.

As a faction expands, in general each faction will have different building choices which represent how the faction governs the conquered province, or deals with the conquered people. These will differ based on how a faction historically treated conquered people, and will result in different recruitment options, as well as other effects upon order and the economy.

- Faction unit lists with about 15 unique, EB-created units each.
- Over a hundred regional/rebel units.
- Military ports will be limited based on historical factors.
- Siege weaponry will be vastly different than in vanilla RTW.
- Unit stats are heavily tweaked to reduce combat speed & lethality, and allow for true maneuvering on the battlefield.
- Unit stats are balanced across the whole system. Units are given historical strengths, no parity is attempted where it did not exist.
- Unit costs are abstracts, being balanced to encourage realistic unit recruitment (within the economic system outlined above). Armies should not consist solely of elite units.
- Units are given recruitment areas on a per-unit basis.
- Faction unit recruitment is based on historical areas, and the faction's method of interacting with conquered areas.
- Recruitment possibility of regionals is based on historical availability, faction attitude towards alliance/subjugation, governing building choice, and other factors.
- Rebels for areas will have appropriate names, unit composition, and some may even be especially recognizable.

Campaign map and strategic UI changes

You have seen a preview of our campaign map. Some changes will be made to what you have seen, and some cosmetic improvements will be made.

- A new scale of river will be used, based on topographical area maps.
- Resources and other map icons will be improved, with new models and textures.
- Terrain and climate is being heavily adjusted based on our research.
- Faction icons are being completely redone.
- The user interface for each faction will have a new feel.

Voices, sounds, and multimedia

As you are probably aware, the Voicemod is now a part of EB; The members have joined the EB team and are assisting in other areas of the project, and the EB team is lending its expertise to the voicemod. In addition, the EB project has a professional music composer working on a new score.

Unfortunately, we currently believe that music can only be adjusted on a per (hard-coded) culture basis, rather than a per faction basis. This may also hold true for the voices as well, which will make our plans to extend the voicemod to all factions moot. We are still searching for someone skilled in manipulating the sound files to assist us in this effort.

- All unit, province, city, and building names will be in the appropriate, ancient language.
- Family trees are fully researched, family names are being fleshed out with appropriate names.
- All six cultures (if not each faction) will have new voices and music.
- New splash screen, loading music, and a greatly expanded repertoire of historical quotes.
- New faction videos for each faction (where the capability exists)

Rome

Until such time where a unified Rome solution that is proven to be bug/nuisance-free exists, EB will continue to search for a solution that includes three Roman factions. Our previous implementation included Optimates, Populares, and Socii. These were abstracts, where the 'leaders' of these factions represented influential members of the particular political group within the Senate, and not an actual political leader. So the Populares faction leader was not actually the political leader of the "Populares" group in the Senate.

Since then we have gone through other ideas. The three factions may be called "Army Groups," or Proconsulates, or Consulates, or two of an above choice and the Socii. Our current implementation in 0.5 is going to be a test of a complete abstract - Dominium Romanum Borealis, Dominium Romanum Australe, and Dominium Romanum Orientalis. These represent, simply, an arbitrary, abstract breakdown of Rome's provincial holdings. Comments are welcome.

Should we continue with this sort of faction division, the Senate seats will be greatly adjusted, for both number and effect.

Proposed future enhancements

EB team members have proposed several enhancements to the EB project, to be decided and worked on once we have the basic EB release closer to complete. We have worked out details of these ideas, but are not yet ready to commit to them or begin work.

- Period adjustments, much like MTW's "early," "mid," and "late" eras.
- Redone and expanded historical battles.
- Multiplayer cost balancing patch.

We hope you are as excited by our plans as we are!

Cheers,

-the EB team

You can find more information about Europa Barbarorum in the following places:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

* Note: All dates provided are very rough estimates, and not intended as a predictor of any sort. EB reserves the right to adjust this date based on our own schedules, real life interruptions, bugs encountered, whimsical musings, or for any damn reason we please. Complaints that we have not met an expected date will fall on deaf ears, and will likely result in derision and ridicule.

sounds awesome! great work EB team ~:grouphug:

Short and simple: Hooray!

Edit: Oh, and I support the Era's system. It's a great system, if anything.

Hmmm... Sounds rather interesting.

And yes, go for the eras. As far as I understand such a thing should be a cakewalk for the likes of you. ~D

Public beta!? Yay!

Awesome! Great work guys, should be an excellent mod

Can you expand on the fleets? You mean that those types of ships you posted on a news bulletin are built in fleets of each type? Or that when you build a fleet you assume that they represent everyone of those ships?

That would make the list just for you to imagine them, I guess......was this something you´ve decided since then?


BTW: Everything else is a dream come true. Brilliant job.

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Originally Posted by Sarcasm

Can you expand on the fleets? You mean that those types of ships you posted on a news bulletin are built in fleets of each type? Or that when you build a fleet you assume that they represent everyone of those ships?

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Our fleets will be made up of a number of individual ships. We calculate their stats and cost based on the number of ships of each type in the fleet. A particular fleet may be made up of x ships of type a, y ships of type b, and so on. The fleet description will inform people of what the fleets consist of, at least in a general sense.

We have conceptualized the fleet approach for months, to answer your question.

I'm quite surprised we don't have people questioning us on anything else. After so many of you complained that we were having a closed beta, and shutting down most discussions, I expected more coments about things, especially the abstract Rome. No more tough questions? What happened to the forum dwellers who correct every little thing we do?? ~D

well, you know more than i of course, khelvan.. but wasn't the majority of the complaining coming from just a few individuals? i personally don't care about the beta, i decided a while back that i don't want to beta test it regardless. i trust EB to handle the particulars.

oh and.. does this mean that there's going to be no screenshot-laden weekly news thread?? :cry:

I'm just having a bit of fun with you guys.

Sorry, was this news post not enough? I thought I would give you a post full of actual news, rather than eye candy. But hey, if you don't like it, I can take it down and put up something with pretty pictures. :bow:

Oh, and if you think that the 'open beta' is going to be a bug-ridden piece of junk, you've got another thing coming. Our goal is to have half of all the units we'll be making in the game by the time the open beta is released. This is 250 units. I think you'll enjoy it ~;)

well, i won't enjoy it at all, because i'm not going to play the beta. has nothing to do with bugginess or whatnot, i just want the full, new experience of a finished EB. i can wait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by khelvan

I'm just having a bit of fun with you guys.

Sorry, was this news post not enough? I thought I would give you a post full of actual news, rather than eye candy. But hey, if you don't like it, I can take it down and put up something with pretty pictures. :bow:

Oh, and if you think that the 'open beta' is going to be a bug-ridden piece of junk, you've got another thing coming. Our goal is to have half of all the units we'll be making in the game by the time the open beta is released. This is 250 units. I think you'll enjoy it ~;)

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:jawdrop: Can't wait!

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Originally Posted by Khelvan

I'm quite surprised we don't have people questioning us on anything else. After so many of you complained that we were having a closed beta, and shutting down most discussions, I expected more coments about things, especially the abstract Rome. No more tough questions? What happened to the forum dwellers who correct every little thing we do??

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You must be doing SOMETHING right. ~;)


Most of these things look good on paper (screen? whatever...). Guess you´re just gonna have to sign me up for the Beta to see if it´s any good... ~;)

This mod makes Rome TW look like a two-year old's game!

yeah, let's see if you can go work for CA instead of the very creators of the game. and i support the era system

Great news Kelvan!!! but no pictures......... ?! :bigcry: :bigcry:

Jeez guys. Pictures are nice, but you guys will actually get to play it in a little bit. Of course I get to play it now, but... ~;) Besides, you will should see a bunch more stuff as we get ready for the open beta.

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No more tough questions? What happened to the forum dwellers who correct every little thing we do?? ~D

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Don't worry boss, they'll be here. ~D

Seriously guys, ask questions. I can only answer stuff on the steppe factions, but we can now answer more of your questions than before.
And what Khelvan said about the beta is correct. No bugs will be present. Even our internal versions have no bugs, and are corrected quite quickly.

wow, looking forward too it. looks like my rome question is answerd. but I still got a question, how will the elite-thingy be handled? upkeep costs of astronomical heights? or just a limited per army? or how?

Primarily through costs, and high building requirments.

I'm still following your work. Keep it up. You have the support of many silent observers.

ok, thnx
next question: since onager and heavy onagers are (finally) removed. what will be placed in stead? 10 variations of the ballista? greek repeating ballista, scorpion, oxybeles etc. but what else? any large bows without the sinews?

EDIT: me again, another question about formations. are they going to be changed ( teh group formation thingy) into like: penta/circular box, or the echelon or a wedge of units.

wich reminds me, I read a lot about the echelon, in 'clash of teh generals' on discorvery one used teh echelon. and I heard Alexander did it too at gaugamela ( i think). and the romans did it to counter the phalanx.
but what does it do? and how can I use it?

I understand you will keep the 3 roman faction system(at least for the beta). I was wondering how will you adress the historical balance issue . I mean being 3 different factions they will each fight another enemy and to avoid extermination they will each have to match it in strength. I think esp. about Carthage. They come in contact with the ex-Scipii.This will mean full Carthaginian army vs. 1/3 of roman forces. If the armies had their historical strengths(it took almost every roman soldier to defeat Carthage, esp. during the second punic war) this faction is a certain victim.If the armies of Rome were beefed up so that each faction can fight it's enemy on their own, you'd get a much stronger Rome than in reality.
So I bring to your attention the following idea(has been posted before around here but I assume you guys are too busy to go through each and every post on this forum):Unite the roman factions and keep the Senate. This way you will not be able to implement the roman internal wars, but the way I see it, EB's goal is to recreate the military and 'political' situation of around 270 B.C. and then develop into an 'alternate history' under the player's control.And in that period Rome was united.

No solution that removes any of the Roman factions will be considered. It introduces bugs to the system. This policy of no bugs entering the game mechanics are why we can avoid problems that we have heard happening in other places such as very long AI turns, rebels being elected to the Senate, CTD bugs, and similar things. I will repeat it again, and the answer will never change. We will not consider a solution that introduces known bugs to the system, and has any number of unintended consequences elsewhere.

Now, on balance, there are various ways to make Rome's strength appear in one place. Such as giving two of the Roman factions one province each and no desire to expand, and make the third faction expansionistic. This neither makes Rome too fast to expand, nor splits its strength.

There will be much variety in the siege weapons, have no fear. You want something without sinews? You guys want nice pictures? Here, try this:

http://img150.exs.cx/img150/8030/19pl.jpg

I'd like to see the 2-weak 1-strong system. This would mean one faction could be beefed up enough to fight, say, Carthage, but the other two wouldn't be simultaneously expanding. Or you could make the two weak ones start out in some far away province surrounded by enemies who always quickly eterminate them. Or some sort of island, way far out where noone would ever see it, and make them unable to build ships. I call in the Rome unified/exiled system.

If you do decide to leave the two small factions in Italy, I think you should consider making them a slightly different shades of red, along with the main rome faction.

On the beta- I'm glad you guys are going the open beta route. A few questions, though:
Will all the new factions be implemented?

What percentage of units will be done for each faction? Will some factions (like rome) have more of their unit list complete than others?

Why didn't you guys post any screenshots?!? It's not like it'd kill ya. ~;)

Are you guys considering giving elite units long build times instead of just ramping up their cost?

Crazed Rabbit.

Wow, first post about this mod, even though I have followed it sense its very start.

With the new unit cost, will there be a shift to raising armies only when they are needed, instead of now in CA's version where you can maintain huge stacks that just sit around? And if there is a shift, will mercenaries play a bigger role with the AI and Human armies due to the need for troops very fast?

Hi i wonder how Forts and watchtowers will work in EB?

Better :)

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Originally Posted by ColdKnight

With the new unit cost, will there be a shift to raising armies only when they are needed, instead of now in CA's version where you can maintain huge stacks that just sit around? And if there is a shift, will mercenaries play a bigger role with the AI and Human armies due to the need for troops very fast?

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Mercenaries will likely play a bigger role, due to their availability. Raising units will not be as easy as it was. This is not due to build times, but simple availability in terms of area.

We are planning on having a faction be able to support a given number of troops on a per province ratio. This will be the standing army. Creating larger armies will quickly bankrupt the player if they are not disbanded quickly, or they don't do their job of taking new territories.

Elite units will in some cases take longer to build than lesser troops, but the difference is not measured in years. However, this is taken on a unit by unit basis, and faction by faction. Different cultures gathered, equipped, and trained troops in various ways.

Forts and watchtowers - we can make them look better, but we can't change their function.

Unit completion - we aim for 50% of all units (aboug 250) to be done by mid-April, when we aim to release the open beta. Faction rosters will be fleshed out before regionals and rebels, for the most part. *

We are prioritizing units based on holes in faction rosters, and the ability to share the new model with other units (thus fleshing out other rosters as well). All new factions will be in 0.5, much less the open beta. Most of the back-end systems will be in the beta, though one of the purposes of the beta is to pound hard on them to see how they work over the long term with a large number of players. The beta will lack, mostly, the bells and whistles of the finished product, like voices, graphics, some music, that sort of thing.

* Note: All dates provided are very rough estimates, and not intended as a predictor of any sort. EB reserves the right to adjust this date based on our own schedules, real life interruptions, bugs encountered, whimsical musings, or for any damn reason we please. Complaints that we have not met an expected date will fall on deaf ears, and will likely result in derision and ridicule.

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Why didn't you guys post any screenshots?!? It's not like it'd kill ya. ~;)

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This must be humor, but my joke-ometer isn't registering anything. ~:)

I'll tell ya what, I'll make sure that next week the news post is full of new faction descriptions, unit descriptions, building descriptions, and other fun stuff, instead of more silly screen shots. The historians among us have been on my case as to why I don't show that sort of thing more often. So, are you guys all about eye candy, or do you like to exercise your brains as well? ~D

Wow, great stuff guys. I especially like the idea of eras, something I have really missed from Medieval, the campaigns were often a lot different. Any clues on when the eras will be set and what they will contain?