Keeping people happy (urggh)
Having played for a couple of weeks now, this is the only thing that loses me the game. Recently as the Turks, I had around 200 troops stationed in all my home territories, well developed, each with their own Alims, and all of a sudden, after a hundred years, around 8-10 break out in revolt. How the hell can I stop this???
This was on hard level also, and presumably I can't station around a thousand men in each terrirtory. If I can't see this, I don't see a point in playing on if my gains are just lost through pesky peasants...
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
You can get civil war for a few reasons
1. - Conquer more than 60% of the map. After you conquerer more than 60%, rebellions will occur much more frequently. When you only have about 5-6 provinces to conquer, then rebellions will be massive.
2. - Low King Influence. A low influence for your king will cause civil war, regardless of how much troops you have in provinces or alims raising morale. When a new king takes the throne, influence will often be one or two lower than the previous king, and so if your king has only 3 or 4 influence, civil war will be very likely. 0-1 influence is gauranteed civil war, 2 influence is a possibility.
For these reasons, I usually play GA mode. You dont need to conquer 60% of the map to win, and every time you get a homeland count (every 25 years or so) and you have at least one homeland province, you get +1 influence for your king. It goes a long way to preventing civil wars, and means you can play a more defensive game if you wish.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
To add, if your King gets "blockaded" (that is, enemy ships blockading your waters), influence drops like mad if you have a large empire.
Moving a King to a place with no port also is a pretty bad idea in that situation.
In short, if you have a large empire, nothing will help except keeping your terrtorial waters clean, and having your King stay put.
To illustrate, in one of my first campaigns as the English, my King went on a crusade to an area with no port.
It was game over after that. No matter how many happiness buildings, King's influence, spies and ships I had, a lot of areas hit 0% Loyalty. Even those I had for like a century.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
To keep your population happy, you can do the following things:
- Appoint governors with good dread rating (at least one skull).
- Build happiness-boosting buildings (religious and trade buildings, watch towers, border forts), and farming upgrades to get your govs (and your king) some good V&V (builder, steward).
- Keep your king approx. at the center of your territory. If your homeland if at the far side of the map, the newly appointed monarch will get moved to here, regardless of his prior position. This can be pretty bad for overall morale, until you get him back in place. I think that you can influence this by building a new Royal Palace at a more suitable place and destroying the old, but I'm not sure.
- Avoid fast expansion and ensure that new provinces (and their govs) gets developed before moving on.
- Keep garrisons that are perhaps slightly higher than absolutely necessary.
- Keep some spare cheap troops ready for known trouble-spots, for use when your king dies. You can then shuffle troops around to some degree.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
200 men stationed in each homeland is nowhere near enough, most of the turks homelands are highly contested territorys and deserve a full garrison to defend them even if they are no longer frontier provinces they are to important to under-defend. The turks are always vunerable to civil war though, so you have to expect that atleast 1 civil war is possible.
If its not a civil war but a wide scale rebellion due to low loyalty from your provinces population then larger garrisons, border forts, lower taxes, competant governors etc will make life much easier, some provinces are notoriously rebellious most are in the steppes to the north but territory in asia minor can be hard to keep loyal if there is some turmoil within your empire.
You should from time to time, look through your army and any general that has below 4 loyalty you should consider disbanding his unit, any general below 3 loyalty should be disbanded immediately. If however a disloyal general happens to be a very skilled one that you need then give him titles to improve his loyalty. Having princes with low loyalty is very dangerous they must be dealt with immediately, either make efforts to improve your king/sultan etc's influence, assassinate him (though that is dangerous) or simply send him alone into an enemy territory and allow him to get killed.
Ive been playing MTW for about 16 months now and I very rarely have rebellions, and depending on who I go civil wars are alot less common I guess it comes with experience. Ive found in my earlier games I didnt understand the concept of good governors id give governorships to anybody and that caused many problems for me.
~:cheers:
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Aetius_
200 men stationed in each homeland is nowhere near enough, most of the turks homelands are highly contested territorys and deserve a full garrison to defend them even if they are no longer frontier provinces they are to important to under-defend. The turks are always vunerable to civil war though, so you have to expect that atleast 1 civil war is possible.
I disagree. Here is my "system" that I have posted before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
*clears throat and prepares to give dissertation*
Here is how I manage happiness for fun and profit:
1) I always use auto-tax, with the following change: set the default loyalty to 180% rather than 120%
2) I maintain a garrison in every province consisting of the following:
· 1 x 100 man spear unit
· 1x 60 man sword/axe unit
· 1 x 60 man missile unit
· 1 x 20 or 40 man cavalry unit
3) I always make my provincial governor one of the above-mentioned units
4) I try to make sure the general I choose as governor has at least 4 acumen and at least 3 dread
5) I keep the following strategic agents in every province:
· 1 x Assassin
· 2 x Spy
· 1 x Religious agent (i.e. Bishop, Cardinal, Imam, etc…)
6) Make sure every province has the following buildings, minimum:
· Town watch
· Church/Mosque
· Tavern
· Brothel
· 80% farm upgrade
· Highest Merchant upgrade possible
· Port
· Any Mines available
· Border Forts
The result of this system is that any provinces you have held for at least 5 years will always be auto-taxed at the “very high” level, without ever having loyalty drop below 180%. Not only that, but the high level of garrison troops makes for a reserve force that can be temporarily mobilized to fight in other areas if needed. Think of them as a "National Guard."
This system maximizes revenue and stability. I have NEVER had a revolt or rebellion using this system, and always have ample supplies of cash lying around, once I hit the High period.
Hope this helps.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
That seems a bit extreme if you ask me. Some of it even seems wrong to me as I will explain.
1) I do not like the auto-taxer b/c it puts territories on Very High taxes. You will get a ton of Vices, which are just not worth the money in the long haul. Set taxes to High and you'll do fine with more Virtues.
2) You can build 4 units of peasants for less money and less maintenance. Usually the loyalty gains from influence from conquering new territories with those good troops is worth more than them being stationed in an interior province. A good strategy for consolidation is stationing anti-rebellion armies(not huge) so that all interior provinces can be reached in one turn. Once you see the rebellion forming, send them in.
3) I have not noticed a huge distance to loyalty correlation until at least 5 or 6 turns distance. Also, it seems like if governors stay in their home province, they get more laziness vices.
4) I also usually try for at least one or two piety. Helps out with keeping high-zeal provinces. Usually switch to 4 dread/3 acument for poor but unruly provinces.
5) What's the difference between one and two spies?
6) Here is what I would say is a minimum for any territory.
- Border Fort
- Town Watch/Town Guard
- Mines - Guaranteed Profit
I disagree with automatically building farms. They cost a significant amount, especially in the first 20 turns when you need to maximize your cash efficiency. Here is the amount of agricultural income a farm must generate on High taxes before I will ever build it.
-20% Upgrade - 300 florins
-40% Upgrade - 400 florins
-60% Upgrade - 500 florins
-80% Upgrade - 600 florins
- Church/Mosque - Over time try to put these in territories as you can. They are cheap if you were needing a Keep anyway. I do not consider these very immediate in need.
- Tavern/Brothel - Same way.
- Merchants - A trading post costs 800 florins and will not generate much income until you have a sea network up. Even so, when I start earning more money I do not need elsewhere, I invest in a trading post in coastlines. When boats start building my trade empire, then an upgrade makes more sense.
-Ports - This is highly debateable in territories with no trade goods. It gives free moeny to the opponent, and if a port is nearby the potential loyalty drop is negligible after a few years.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
It is possible to farm the builder/great builder/magnificent builder virtue for the heir you decide to become king. Just place the heir on top of a stack with a unit that is governor in a province you keep building/destroy watch towers in. While you are at it farm the steward/trader virtue as well, and you may have a fresh king with +30 province happiness/+2 loyalty generals.
As the Turks you can build a lot of Jihad markers, and when the king dies dump some of them in a province you have let rebelled for the purpose (preferably one that kan be reached quickly). The next turn your new king will have both influence and piety upgraded, when the jihads are successful.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
That seems a bit extreme if you ask me. Some of it even seems wrong to me as I will explain.
1) I do not like the auto-taxer b/c it puts territories on Very High taxes. You will get a ton of Vices, which are just not worth the money in the long haul. Set taxes to High and you'll do fine with more Virtues.
What vices are you talking about? I do not experience that. The only time my governors start growing vices like weeds is after I have already conquered 60% of the map. I believe it's hard coded that vices start cropping up like crazy at that point, no matter what level you are taxing at. And anyway, if you do the math the income difference between "High" and "Very High" is significant, and IMO, worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
2) You can build 4 units of peasants for less money and less maintenance. Usually the loyalty gains from influence from conquering new territories with those good troops is worth more than them being stationed in an interior province. A good strategy for consolidation is stationing anti-rebellion armies(not huge) so that all interior provinces can be reached in one turn. Once you see the rebellion forming, send them in.
Three things:
First, many of the better mods do not even have peasants as buildable units (or if they do, they have very high build requirements), so that is not an option if you are expanding your MTW experience beyond vanilla.
Second, peasants are useless in a fight. By garrisoning your provinces with half decent units, as I mentioned previously, you have a standing "national guard" force that can be rapidly (albeit temporarily) deployed to trouble spots when you are under attack. This reduces the need to have massive stacks of reserve troops sitting doing nothing but costing money every turn.
Third, there are many units that do not cost much more than peasants but have exponentially more combat ability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
3) I have not noticed a huge distance to loyalty correlation until at least 5 or 6 turns distance. Also, it seems like if governors stay in their home province, they get more laziness vices.
Yes, but if governors are not in their home provinces, they get "Absentee Landlord" vices. As far as loyalty goes, it has nothing to do with the distance to the governor, but instead with the distance to the King. I personally keep my governors in their home provinces for simplicity's sake, but it really doesn't make a lot of difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
4) I also usually try for at least one or two piety. Helps out with keeping high-zeal provinces. Usually switch to 4 dread/3 acument for poor but unruly provinces.
A governor's piety has no impact on province loyalty. All it does is provide some protection from inquisitors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
5) What's the difference between one and two spies?
I don't really know, but as spies have no upkeep cost, I play it safe and use two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
6) Here is what I would say is a minimum for any territory.
- Border Fort
- Town Watch/Town Guard
- Mines - Guaranteed Profit
I disagree with automatically building farms. They cost a significant amount, especially in the first 20 turns when you need to maximize your cash efficiency. Here is the amount of agricultural income a farm must generate on High taxes before I will ever build it.
-20% Upgrade - 300 florins
-40% Upgrade - 400 florins
-60% Upgrade - 500 florins
-80% Upgrade - 600 florins
Depends on what gaming style you use. I tend to play a very long game and have my fun developing generals RPG style. If you play a long game, the farms pay for themselves. But if you are playing a blitz-type game trying to conquer as quickly as possible, you are right, farms are not worth it in some provinces.
Also, some mods have lowered trade income and increased farm income, making it worth it to build farms in all provinces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
- Church/Mosque - Over time try to put these in territories as you can. They are cheap if you were needing a Keep anyway. I do not consider these very immediate in need.
I disagree. Put them in sooner rather than later. They make your provinces much less rebellious by more quickly converting the populace to your religion. They also lessen the power of enemy inquisitors in the province.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
- Tavern/Brothel - Same way.
Brothels give an immediate happiness increase to the province. I like them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
- Merchants - A trading post costs 800 florins and will not generate much income until you have a sea network up. Even so, when I start earning more money I do not need elsewhere, I invest in a trading post in coastlines. When boats start building my trade empire, then an upgrade makes more sense.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_schwick
-Ports - This is highly debateable in territories with no trade goods. It gives free moeny to the opponent, and if a port is nearby the potential loyalty drop is negligible after a few years.
You need to give your head a shake on this one. ~;p First of all, the AI is rarely smart enough to develope working trade networks, so "freely giving money to the opponent" is a non-issue. Second, having ports in all provinces increases happiness by shortening the distance to your king. Third, having ports in all provinces allows you to instantly move troops from almost anywhere to almost anywhere. I refer to my previous comments about maintaining a "national guard." The ports allow you to make use of this low cost reserve force and further reduce the need to have humungous stacks of troops lying around doing nothing.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
I think another reason to build ports in coastal provinces that don't have trade goods is that then you can build a shipbuilder. Chances are those provinces aren't doing much anyways - they may as well be put to use expanding your navies.
Re: Keeping people happy (urggh)
And don't forget to have at least one spy in every single province you own, that will make your life a LOT easier
