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I was wondering how your formations look like , and why you put your units in that particular formation, I normally don't put my units in a other formation than what I get when I start a battle ( talking about SP ) don't want to waste time deploying versus an AI army that most of the time isnt really a threat
so please post your ( costum / home made :bow: ) formations here !
~:cheers:
With respect, the question is not specific enough for a concise response. My formation depends on what faction I'm playing. For example, with a phalanx army, I usually deploy in a single line to maximize frontage and minimize the possibility of getting flanked. With horse archers, I usually deploy in an inverted crescent with melee cavalry on the wings and try to suck the enemy's center into a crossfire. With a more flexible infantry army, such as Rome, I will deploy heavy on the wings with my best troops in the center and attempt a single- or double-envelopment. Also it depends on my enemy: I may deploy my missile troops forward if I am facing elephants, for example. Cannot really answer this question without more specifics.
ok Count Belisarius point taken :bow:
let's say when playing the Romans how do you line up / put your units when deploying them on the battle map.
versus a standard army that is jusy as big and just as strong ( 1:1 ratio ) and roughly has the same unit types you have.
PS : I thought you answerd the question pretty good, those were petty much the answers I was loking for ~;)
I generally only play Rome and Greece, and I use the Double Line formation exclusively.
I would prefer a triple line formation in keeping with the old Roman triplex acies , where you had Hastati in the first line, Principes in the second, and Triarii in the third, but I am not able to field enough units to achieve this.
All of the factions I play against, no matter the culture, either try to flank me (always sending one or two units in an absurd attempt to kill my general) or mount a cavalry charge supported by infantry in the center. In Double Line, the second line of reserves is very effective in backing up the first line or filling large gaps in it. If the enemy flanks and tries to envelope my army, the reserve second line is also effective in blocking these attempts.
Well I guess it would depend on a number of different variables, such as the the forces available to me, whether I was attacking or defending, the terrain, and the game difficulty setting, but . . . playing as a Roman faction, on defense, facing an enemy of equal numbers and roughly equal capabilities (such as Spain or Carthage, with no elephants), on level open ground, and on H/H difficulty, I usually try to employ an envelopment tactic as follows:
1) skirmishers/archers: a single 3-man deep (2-deep is more effective but just too much frontage) line out in front of my infantry. Harass the enemy infantry into attacking the center. Skirmishers/archers retire behind the reserves when threatened. Got to watch out for enemy cavalry, though, since these archers are valuable.
2) main line: single 4-deep line of principes in the center with double 4-deep lines of hastati on the wings (double envelopment); or, a triple/quadruple 4-deep line of hastati on ONE wing (single envelopment).
3) reserves: triarii (or principes if I don't have any) 4-deep, individual units evenly spaced behind the weaker parts of the main line, to guard against a breakthrough or a successful enemy flanking maneuver.
3) cavalry: I have always been of the opinion that your own cavalry are the best anti-cavalry defense, so I put cavalry on the wings, holding at least one unit in reserve for pursuit.
4) general: among the reserves, but as close to the main line as possible. This makes my troops fight harder and allows him to participate in the battle without getting caught up in a running fight and cut off from support.
Comments: I LOVE a well-executed double envelopment. I don't use Hannibal's version because the Romans are uniformly better troops than the great Carthaginian had at Cannae, and I need not run the risk of having my center broken. I use my strong principes (you could use triarii too, but they're MUCH too valuable) to fix the enemy center, and the overweighted wings to smash one or both of the enemy's flanks, taking his remaining units in the flank and rear. After the flanks start to roll up, the rout is on, and I clean up the mess with whatever cavalry I have left. Roman infantry units are ideally suited for this tactic: they are nimble enough to skirt around the enemy's flank and pack a great punch.
"I would prefer a triple line formation in keeping with the old Roman triplex acies , where you had Hastati in the first line, Principes in the second, and Triarii in the third, but I am not able to field enough units to achieve this. "
i've noticed that the AI almost always does this. pretty cool.
I have a second question,
What formation do you use after playing for three hours against a daft AI whose only tactic consists of a simple charge of the light brigade mixed with uselessly pandering infantry roving around the battlefield?
It basically just depends on whether my infantry is phalanx based or not.
If it's phalanx based I deploy the phalanxes out front, with javelins behind them and archers behind the javelineers, and what little cavalry I usually bring covering the flanks and serving as attack "wings" for flanking maneuvers.
If it's not phalanx based then I put the javelins out front, with the infantry behind them, and the archers behind the infantry with enough space for the javelins to occupy when they skirmish back through the lines. I set the javelins to skirmish, the infantry to guard, and the archers to hold position. That way the javelins retreating often lures the enemy into becoming entangled with my infantry where I can easily encircle them and cut them all down.
My typical tactics are to defend the archers at all costs, and wait for the right moment to begin an encircling tactic. I'm very conservative and methodical. I intend to bring as many of my men home at the end of the day as possible. No victory is glorious when you have to tell the mothers of your country that their sons won't be coming home to them.
Me personally the same thing. Find a tactic that works and keep using it, every 50 battles or so the AI will actually have 1/8 of a brain and give you a good battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetius the Last Roman
you saved me typingQuote:
Originally Posted by Count Belisarius
What's been working for me real nice for the Gauls is breaking my army into a left wing, center, and right wing sections with archers and general behind and a cav on each wing. I keep my front line straight until I get a close enough to the enemy then I move my right wing forward to attack the enemies left while continuing to advance my left and center. And then right before I proceeed to annhilate the enemy left wing I move my archers to my right side. For some reason, this freaks the AI out and it sends it's right and center to reinforce it's left wing. Then, I can usually flank these units with my left and center. And even if they engaged my left and center, that would work anyways since I want to prevent their wing from being reinforced. I find this pretty effective for me, but calvary heavy armies would worry me with this formation.
My army composition with this formation is 4 Hastati in the Center;, 5 principes on each wing with 3 units in front and 2 units in back; 1 equites on each wing; 3 archers, 1 general.
If I get triarii I might make my wings 3 principes in front and two triarii in back for better cavalry defence.
with rome on the defence (other countries with pilum throwing heavy infantry will do to) i always use this formation
2 horizontal rows of 4 heavy infantry in the center
2 diagonal rows of 1 spear unit and 1 heavy infantry behind it on the wings
the rest depends on the situation. this formation almost never fails. even the weakest soldiers can massacre a stronger army
When I was playing my first campaign (as the Scipii romans) I ended up building "standard" army stacks that I almost always deployed in the same formation for field battles. I usually had the following units, with some variation to stacks (more cavalry and less artillery for a more mobile stack, replacing 1-2 archers with special units like merc elephants, etc)
1 general [G]
1 wardogs [D]
4 cohorts of "elite" infantry (eg Praetorians) [E]
4 cohorts of "normal" infantry (eg Legionaries) [N]
2 cavalry [C]
4 artillery (onagers) [O]
4 archers [A]
[C][ E ][ E ][ E ][ E ][C]
....[ N ][ N ][ N ][ N ]
[..A..][..A..][..A..][..A..]
.....[O][O][G][O][O]
..............[D]
This suited my style, which is to attack the enemy in the strategy map, move my army to artillery range and bombard them untill they'll either attack me or run away. I don't like using infantry offensively (except in siege battles), I always just make them form a line and put them in guard mode and let the enemy come and fight. The only time I ever move my infantry is when moving the whole formation to take better ground right after deployment, and to move closer to allow my onagers to fire. Their job is to be an inpenetrable wall of steel, while my cavalry and archers do most of the manouvering. It's also easier to maintain control over things when I don't have to worry about micromanaging my infantry much.
Although romans don't use phalanxes, their infantry is still very good for this sort of tactics. Especially with the shower of javelins just before melee contact, which can often rout charging infantry units before they even clash with my line (due to being already weakened by my archers and onagers). Deploying in two lines of cohorts rather than just one long line makes a shorter front but I've found 4 cohorts to be long enough for most battles. The 2nd line is handy as they can step in as fresh reinforcements when my 1st line is beginning to lose. The reason I put my elite in front and normal infantry behind them is that the elites can better withstand the first clash when the enemy charges. By the time I have the 2nd line step forth (if it even comes to that) the enemy units will already be reduced and exhausted so the quality of troops will not matter as much as being fresh and at full strength.
artillery makes you move slower, much slower
I like the checkerboard with my Romans (good old RTR). Velites in front, then Hastati spaced with room for Principes behind in the gaps. Nice and flexible. I use my cav to flank after the AI has rammed its cav into my infantry. Man that is so sad...
Other factions, I used a phalanx with a weighted wing. I like my Cav.
Azi
I never have one until I can see the landscape and the enemy. Only then do I dictate where my troops will stand and fight.
This game runs too fast to do the true roman checkerboard where each row forms a single continuous line before attacking and then retreating back to regoup.
When using my Longbowmen tactic from MTW using an all-archer army (IE: Foresters or Chosen Archers) plus a cav or two, I keep them all in double rank. If the enemy cavalry breaks through the volleys and hits the first rank, the second rank is still able to take up the fight until the cavalry breaks and runs. Obviously, all of them are set to not skirmish, and set to guard mode.
When defending bridges with infantry, I use a custom-made U formation. The main infantry (IE: Phalanx) will be five or six deep, and facing the bridge about one unit length back. Then a unit of hard hitters (or phalanx again) will flank the open gaps on the side.
http://www.kekvitirae.com/bridgedefense.gif
When the enemy hits the main unit of infantry, the supporting infantry will close in and wipe out the enemy from both sides. Sure-fire way to rout a powerful enemy.
usually if i am defending as Greece, i like to use 4 units of spartans in a straight line then in front i cover that line with 2 thick units of greek swords men and then a thin layer of armored hoplites 2 men deep. That way in case of a cavalry charge i have the spears to protect the swords men, but either way i find that who ever attacks me is wore out by the time they hit the spartans that their is no hope for them. on the flanks i like to have 4 units on swordsmen on each side and then 2 units in back for reinforcements or in case some trys to get my spartans from the back. I usually keep my general as far back as i can and flank my calvary so when the enemy attacks i get hit them from the rear, or chase down thier cavarly or missle men
Your enemy could just field an army full of archers.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
with phalanx factions i use this
p,p,p,p,p,p,p,p,p,p
s,s a,a,a,a s,s
c c
When I played Macedon, I used Epaminondas' tactics at Peuctra, modified. I always divided my phalanx into an attack division of about 2-3 units, and the rest into the contact division, which would form a refused flank that played a purely defensive role. The attack division is usually on the right flank, with a unit or two or mercenary units to the right of it. Simply put, I mass overwhelming shock power on the right flank, denuding the left. It's dangerous, but it's always worked for balanced-army battles. I concentrate all my cavalry on the right flank, except for the commander's cavalry, which I leave somewhere on the left in case cavalry tries to outflank that side anyway. Archers/peltasts will be in a line behind the phalanx, the archers set to fire flaming arrows. Right wing opens the battle, phalax advancing to contact, mercenaries (i prefer barbarians/bastarnae for this) coming wide to outflank, or to guard the right flank, whichever is applicable depending on the width of the enemy line, and cavalry coming around wide to deliver charges onto the exact same units the phalanxes are engaging, all the time with flaming arrows falling among them. They don't tend to last long.. Then it really is all about rolling up the line, which by now will have been engaged with the contact division, so the attack division will have a good time. Not to mention the cavalry, who will probably, given their numbers, overrun the enemy cavalry at first pass, and hit the enemy in rear. It's always worked for me, though I've never tried it against the Greek cities... archers alone were enough for that :-P
As Romans, I always deployed in single line, with the wings marching out to do the double envelopment like Count Belisarius, cavalry sweeping wide to complete the Cannae. I've had some pretty spectacular slaughters from this tactic.
As the Scythians...well, let me figure out the Scythians more before I tell you what I think. My tactics for the Scythians currently do not pass for anything more than mediocre.
As Germans, I used to get my archers to open the battle while I formed my army in the same way as the Macedonians. I always carry at least 8 phalanxes in my Germanic armies in case I get to fight a defensive battle, so my tactics are rather identical, except when I face hoplites, upon which axemen and cavalry form my primary attack arm, and I concentrate them all on one wing.
I haven't played enough of the other factions to get a taste of their fighting styles, so I'll stop here.