EB news - Friday, April 8

Greetings, Europa Barbarorum fans!

We have some exciting things to share with you this week! First though we would like to thank everyone who fell for the traditional April Fool's joke (the Thebans and Illyria, for those of you who are still unaware). No big mod would be complete without one! We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did leading you all on!

This week, for you Phoenician freaks out there, we have a nice surprise: The (Carthaginian) Elite African Infantry, by Adherbal. The elite African Infantry represent both an adaptation to Roman tactics, and a force of extremely well trained and motivated soldiers whose purpose is to fight as a tough and seasoned heavy infantry. They wield good Iberian short swords, carry Iberian Scuta, and wear Roman mail armor with greaves and bracers.

http://img115.exs.cx/img115/6581/eliteafr67sk.jpg

Next, we know that while you Hellenophiles have been satisfied recently, not many of the barbarian lovers out there have seen new units. So this week we have a special presentation for you, a Germanic warband (models by Alin, textures by Webbird):

Here we have the Sahsnotaz, Ridon-Harjan, Bedilaz, Bugiz-Mannaz, and Swainaz. Followed by some unit closeups, including the Ridon-Harjan unmounted.

http://img115.exs.cx/img115/3661/ger...band6dz0ry.jpg
http://img115.exs.cx/img115/4629/hus...ow022sl0ox.jpg
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/7314/sashn...ow025un8ko.jpg
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/6481/triba...ow020fx6do.jpg

We have shared quite a bit with you over the past couple of months, but we still do have a few surprises in store. This week we would like to give you a preview of the work we're doing to improve the look of the campaign map, among other things. Eadingas and Alin have been hard at work here; the images you see below were created by Alin:

We've been working on the blockade graphic:
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/6886/13ir6he.jpg

Working on fleet models:
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/7710/15ti17xm.jpg

Working on making forests more dense/realistic:
http://img25.exs.cx/img25/7020/27on4fq.jpg

Working on the new siege model:
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/9287/66mp2tu.jpg

Working on a new barbarian "watchtower" model:
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/4606/71pi8ot.jpg

Watch this space for even more surprises in the future. We are still hopeful for an April open beta, but we have run into some issues with the 1.2 patch that may delay our release somewhat. We're as anxious to have this played as you are to play it.

Please note that unless stated otherwise, ALL pictures shown in our news posts are of works in progress. We continue to improve on all parts of EB, and will do so long after our initial release.

As always, if you have questions or comments, the best place to post them would be here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or here:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/index.php?showforum=60

We give special thanks to http://www.imageshack.us who provide us with a simple, foolproof, and free way to show you all these pictures each week.

Have a wonderful day!

Sincerely,

-the EB team

awesomeness. i loved it all. :2thumbsup:
particularly liked all the new campaign map models.
also, i think the elite african infantry is my new favorite unit. ~:)

I guess Khelvan was in a "giving" mood today, hum? ~:)

Hooray!

Beautiful units and a nice touch in map features.

FINALLY, CARTHAGE'S RIGHTFUL ELITE INFANTRY!

:bow: ~D

Best update so far. I'm really excited to get my hands on this now more than ever.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

We are still hopeful for an April open beta, but we have run into some issues with the 1.2 patch that may delay our release somewhat.

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wait, i'm still unclear on this. the first post of the FAQ still talks about a closed beta. so you're saying it will be fully open to the public now?

WOW! ~;) i love it.
the onlything that i noticed that was a bit odd was the barbarian watchtower.
i think it would be best as a crude version of the already existing one.

also just wondering will their be the eastern extinsion and how many new provinces will be included?

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Originally Posted by tai4ji2x

wait, i'm still unclear on this. the first post of the FAQ still talks about a closed beta. so you're saying it will be fully open to the public now?

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45130

I haven't updated the FAQ. Too busy working on releasing things.

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Originally Posted by Dark11

WOW! ~;) i love it.
the onlything that i noticed that was a bit odd was the barbarian watchtower.
i think it would be best as a crude version of the already existing one.

also just wondering will their be the eastern extinsion and how many new provinces will be included?

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The factions we're talking about didn't build watchtowers as CA had them. They made small camps on the tops of tall hills. So that is what we're making.

We've remade the map to be bigger north, east, and south. It isn't just an "extension." We're at the province limit of 199, I have no idea how many "new" provinces that makes.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

The factions we're talking about didn't build watchtowers as CA had them. They made small camps on the tops of tall hills. So that is what we're making.

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unfortunately, i assume there is no way to change that model with the seasons, right? to me, the green grass is what makes the hill odd looking in the snow. it'll look great in the summer though..

where these hills earth works or were they natural hills that they just built little camps on? if they used pre-existing hills, maybe the scout camps can exist in-game at the start (and be part of the camp map terrain, thereby getting snowy in the winter and green in the summer)? what about having the 'hill' be abstracted, and just having a 'scout camp' (a few buildings on the ground)? is any of that possible to do?

if they were earth works, what about a brown (earth) color to the hill instead of green?

You really don't like our little hill, eh? :uhoh2:

We, of course, are keeping our options open. This is just a scout camp, it isn't any sort of fortification.

Actually, we could use your help with that hill, if any of you have any idea how to do it. I want it to make partially invisible, so that patches of snow/sand would come through the 'holes' in the hill texture, this way the hill could change its appearance a bit with seasons - but I can't get it to work, no matter what I do... the alpha channels don't seem to work, or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

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Originally Posted by khelvan

You really don't like our little hill, eh? :uhoh2:

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:embarassed:

for me, it's mostly just that the blocky little green lump looks so incongruous in the snow (i imagine it'll be less odd looking in summer). what about a scout camp without the hill? just a small group of buildings set on a small clearing (earth-colored). that'd make sense in winter or summer... well sort of.. i don't know. obviously, it's not a big deal. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Big_John

unfortunately, i assume there is no way to change that model with the seasons, right? to me, the green grass is what makes the hill odd looking in the snow. it'll look great in the summer though..

where these hills earth works or were they natural hills that they just built little camps on? if they used pre-existing hills, maybe the scout camps can exist in-game at the start (and be part of the camp map terrain, thereby getting snowy in the winter and green in the summer)? what about having the 'hill' be abstracted, and just having a 'scout camp' (a few buildings on the ground)? is any of that possible to do?

if they were earth works, what about a brown (earth) color to the hill instead of green?

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I don't have an answer to the seasons question, but I will say that up close, that is an extremely detailed and kick-butt "scout camp". Too bad it's hard to see at that distance.

We are still working on it, the texture isn't finished yet and we try to fix the season problem but the model is ready, i think we could use the underlay to fix the season problem, i tried to do this but i can't enlarge the underlay for the watchtower so that around the hill to be some mud and or to change the underlay model with the hiill one wich will automaticaly change the texture in sesons but i can't find the model,i agree that in summer it looks good but not in winter.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I like the campmap models, specially the "siege" one.

Fleet and blockade models:

IMHO it will make the sea area around a conflictive port-chokepoint too crammed with small ships that will just result in a mess. Remember how there are always lots of ships in the entrance of the Adriatic. Dont take me wrong, I like the diversity, but it might be a beter idea to just substitute the current model of the ship with just a more realistic one instead of adding more ships to the icon.

Its your call obviously.

Carthaginian infantry: I´m not too convinced with the "roman chainmail bit". Could you guys please post some sort of resource to read a little about them?

Suggestion for the "siege" icon:

Is it possible to remove the "army" toke at all? And just make the standard on top of the besieging camp. Also I would like to see the besieging camp a bit more fortified.

Suggestion for the watchtower:

A hill with a fire on top, the idea behind it is pretend the barbarians used fire on top of the mountain to communicate fast. ~;) This one of course is more inspired in LOTR film.

About seasons: Make the hill so high, its always snowy, just as other mountains.

Make these "watchtowers" buidable in mountain areas. It seems reasonable as there were more chances of finding an adequate height there.


BTW, it might look like I´ve criticized a lot here, but it is just because I really look forward for EB to improve RTW.

Thanks for reading. :bow:

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

A hill with a fire on top, the idea behind it is pretend the barbarians used fire on top of the mountain to communicate fast.

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This was considered because several REAL civilizations, such as the Gauls, really did do this in mountainous areas, but it's impractical in realistic sense; not everywhere they could spread could possibly have a high enough area for this to be truly viable; plus, they were only for emergencies, they didn't keep a kingdom abreast of the actual situation, merely informed them when an enemy was approaching. Then, why would they show the movement of neutral parties? However, scout camps are very real, and are workable for all the barbarian civilizations; everyone builds camps from which to explore from, from time to time, and to watch movements of enemies or neutral parties through their lands. These camps wouldn't actually require high mountains or even hills, really. The camp isn't actually what's watching, it's the reconnaisance that eschews from it; woodsmen, outrunners, scouts on horseback, etc., examining the situation and reporting it home.

damn those soldier close-ups are awesome, and siege/blockade is a real beauty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SwordsMaster

I like the campmap models, specially the "siege" one.

Fleet and blockade models:

IMHO it will make the sea area around a conflictive port-chokepoint too crammed with small ships that will just result in a mess. Remember how there are always lots of ships in the entrance of the Adriatic. Dont take me wrong, I like the diversity, but it might be a beter idea to just substitute the current model of the ship with just a more realistic one instead of adding more ships to the icon.

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Sorry can't do that, the blockade model and ships ones are two different pieces, what do you wan't to do is to hard-coded, i await other ideas you mught have.

Quote:

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Suggestion for the "siege" icon:

Is it possible to remove the "army" toke at all? And just make the standard on top of the besieging camp. Also I would like to see the besieging camp a bit more fortified.

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Again it isn't possible, i've reached the max faces alowed per model so i can't add anything more to it, it's hardcoded to remove the army toke but we are working to change it in a little platoon or something else.

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Suggestion for the watchtower:

A hill with a fire on top, the idea behind it is pretend the barbarians used fire on top of the mountain to communicate fast. ~;) This one of course is more inspired in LOTR film.

About seasons: Make the hill so high, its always snowy, just as other mountains.

Make these "watchtowers" buidable in mountain areas. It seems reasonable as there were more chances of finding an adequate height there.

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No fire can't be aded it's hard-coded be sure i thought about this, i think if we make the hill so high it will look very whyred when it's build in a flat plain and we can't to make them buildable only in high areas again ot's hard-coded.

Guys we would do much more things if the game parts wouldn't be so hard-coded and make the game look much better but what can we do if they are hard-coded.

congrats on the great work again. i have a question and a suggestion to follow.

starting with the question.
you are introducing a higher grade of detail to the whole game, will this have a great effect on performance?

now to the suggestion.
of course i the season business is hard to solve with the barbarian watchtowers (probably a reason CA just gave them the watchtowers they have in the game).

now, big john made a god suggestion, and i would like to pick that one up. just having the buildings without a hill is a great idea. you could add a bit of shade instead grass, to make it look slightly elevated.

i don't know if this would work right, just something that struck me.

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Sorry can't do that, the blockade model and ships ones are two different pieces, what do you wan't to do is to hard-coded, i await other ideas you mught have.

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I meant to change the actual "ship" token to a different ship token, a more realistic one. as opposed to adding more little ships

About siege icons:
Also change the "army" token to, say a "tent" token in sieges.

~:cheers: Very nice job again EB. Can`t wait to play the beta version.. :duel:

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Originally Posted by Proper Gander

congrats on the great work again. i have a question and a suggestion to follow.

starting with the question.
you are introducing a higher grade of detail to the whole game, will this have a great effect on performance?

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Well i have an p4 2.66, 9600xt and 512mb and almost didn't feel any perfomance drop with the new campagin map models, the units models are worked so that they don't contain to many polys.

Quote:

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now to the suggestion.
of course i the season business is hard to solve with the barbarian watchtowers (probably a reason CA just gave them the watchtowers they have in the game).

now, big john made a god suggestion, and i would like to pick that one up. just having the buildings without a hill is a great idea. you could add a bit of shade instead grass, to make it look slightly elevated.

i don't know if this would work right, just something that struck me.

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If the season problem isn't fixed i think we will have to stick with this idea, but i think the underlay model can fix this problem the only problem is that i can't find it and don't know if i change it if it will used by ohter models.

Quote:

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I meant to change the actual "ship" token to a different ship token, a more realistic one. as opposed to adding more little ships

About siege icons:
Also change the "army" token to, say a "tent" token in sieges.

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We had thought of some ideas for the army token and you is included but i don't think we can this, it's again, i know very disturbing, hard-coded.So we can make the game another model used in siege and change the army model in another model, but i think the animation can be used here this just came up to me, if i remember correctly the army token while siegieng so i think it can be done.
The other factions will have other types of ship tokens, but you're are right, the blockade icon needs another type of ship model.

I think a problem with the barb watchtower is that the model structures/houses/whatever on the hill are so small. It looks like a green lump with bits of brownish lumps on top. And in winter, it really stands out.

The solution would be to increase the size of the buildings and do away with the hill. This would serve to make the 'camp' more noticable, so we could better appreciate the models. Also, it would be more realistic; when the barbs bulit a camp on a hill, the bulidings would appear on a hill, and when they built them in flat plains, the camp would appear on the flat plains, not on some hill in the middle of a steppe, for example. It would also change with the seasons this way, and the ground would be different in different terrain (no oasises in the Arabian desert).

This, in case you where wondering, is why its good to communicate with the community and get feedback. ~;)

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

The solution would be to increase the size of the buildings and do away with the hill. This would serve to make the 'camp' more noticable, so we could better appreciate the models.

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just my presonal taste, but i actually like the small buildings. infact, i'd like it if the size of other campaign map objects was reduced (well, armies, agents, and watchtowers at least). to me, that'd make the campaign map less cartoonish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

This, in case you where wondering, is why its good to communicate with the community and get feedback. ~;)

Crazed Rabbit

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This is what the beta is for.

Quote:

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just my presonal taste, but i actually like the small buildings. infact, i'd like it if the size of other campaign map objects was reduced (well, armies, agents, and watchtowers at least). to me, that'd make the campaign map less cartoonish.

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If we were to reduce everything to a point of non-cartoonish stuff, everything would be tiny. I think that it is not the scale that makes it so cartoony, since we need to have some abstraction or spend a lot of time zoomed in. The merits of this on gameplay are interesting. If we could zoom in really far and see the detail, it would be very interesting and nice, but then it would be a blurry blob when zoomed out to manuever armies.

The problem of cartoony looking bulidings lies in the coloring and general style of the objects. I think a skilled artist (which EB clearly has in abundance) should be able to make a good abstract that isn't really tiny.

On a side note, is Prometheus still making units for EB? I haven't seen any of his units for a while.

Crazed Rabbit

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

If we were to reduce everything to a point of non-cartoonish stuff, everything would be tiny. I think that it is not the scale that makes it so cartoony, since we need to have some abstraction or spend a lot of time zoomed in.

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the design of the map is obviously cartoonish, i have no problem with that. i just mean i think that re-scaling armies and agents to about 3/4-1/2 their current size would look better, imo. i think the wooden watchtower should be about 1/2-sized.

Quote:

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On a side note, is Prometheus still making units for EB? I haven't seen any of his units for a while.

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Yep, Prom still continues to make units. A whole lot of them actually.

Quote:

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the design of the map is obviously cartoonish, i have no problem with that. i just mean i think that re-scaling armies and agents to about 3/4-1/2 their current size would look better, imo. i think the wooden watchtower should be about 1/2-sized.

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Although I have seen no such movement in that direction, I would indeed like to see it like that.

on the picture (big/first) i see two skirmishers, what's the differnce? one is holding two spears in one hand, how will the throwing animation be? btw will reload be fixed, will the grasp behind their shield instead of javs popping up? will the romans have two pila strapped on their shield?