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Okay, maybe its all the crack talking but for some reason, my Billmen seem to clean up EVERYTHING. Honestly, when I walked into a battle, it seems at the very least they are breaking even. If any, are their any counters for them or did I stumble on to something great. If no counters, I know what I am using my next game online.
I do know they are like Halbearers but I have seen my Halbearers get the shit kicked out of them while the Billmen stand firm.
Any archer unit can cause serious pain to the billmen, especially mounted crossbowmen.
I think ghazis, gallowglasses and the like can also give them serious problems.
Swiss halbs can also defeat them as they are pumped up billmen (or bills are toned down swiss halbs).
Are your billmen trained in mercia with a master spearmaker? If so they get a +2 valor bonus and they are comparable with chivalric foor knights (same attack, defence, bonus vs. cav, but slightly lower morale and armour). So it is quite normal they mop up everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budwise
I have personally always loved Billmen ever after they won a important mp battle for me. The most important thing to remeber is that Billmen are not militia, they are soldiers and a little more on the professonal side. That means that they will be tougher and more hardened.
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Originally Posted by cutepuppy
No, after I found out how effective they are, I build them everywhere and use them as my frontline. Yeah, now I seem them losing but all I did was flank the unit doing it and still won.
BUT I LOST THE GAME DUE TO NO HEIRS. SOAB
Hey, my Billmen finally got their asses beat. AGAINST BOYARS, OMG, I was so shocked. But it took all the way to get to Russia to have it happen.
Horse archers are the bane of any non heavily armored infantry, had you got halbs it wouldn't have happened.
NO NO NO, their bows didn't do me in, it was ACTUAL Fighting the Boyars. Don't quote me because even I have seen the stats of the two units but I honestly think a Billmen unit would own the Halberers. I have always had a better outcome with them.
The actual fighting?
Hmm, the bills are supposed to mincemeat them, since the boyars got 5 armour it means a +2 AP bonus added to the attack...
Are you sure they weren't flanked or disrupted by arrow fire?
You know, thats what I though. And I never had trouble against horse before. I even seen them chew up the BIG NUTS Ch. Knights and even Knight Templars.
Oh, and to answer your question, they didn't rout, they were just getting creamed. AND IT WAS just 36 billmen going up against ONE group of Boyars. Yet that wasn't the only time. Many Billmen fell to Boyar Clans. I am baffled. The only way I took out Russia was to mass Billmen single enemy horse groups (Yeah, I don't know how to quit.)
You didn't use bills to absorbe charges, did you?
They are armour and cavalry killers. They are just as vulnerable as any infantry to missiles though, so don't come to rely on them completely. Horse archers are the bane of units like this.
And it's halberdiers, not halberers. ~:)
I'm tire of posting tonight but thats the only reason why I use royal knights is to take care of horse/infantry archers. Yeah, I know they are slow but still, it works and I hate bringing Hobilars along. Plus, you never know when you need heavy cav.
The Boyars are a pretty awesome unit. Most horse archers are very weak when it comes to melee but boyars are a combination of horse archers and heavy cavalry, able to whittle you down at range or crush you hand-to-hand. Billmen still have the technical advantage, but valor, morale, or terrain could easily give the boyars the victory. In my russian game I sent an army of nothing but boyars by sea to attack a distant powerful faction (the Almohads) and then reinforced them as often as I could while they annihilated huge armies every few years. My general got a load of stars (base 9 with a really cool message) plus some really nice virtues--field defense specialist, expert attacker, and skilled last stand. With that many stars every units valour was raised by a good three or four and some already formidable Russian troops came to dominate anywhere but in the desert.
They great against a lot of units. They were made for armour-spanking...:) Just like Longbowmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budwise
I use Billmen instead of swordsmen in my English campaign. I prefer to use CS as pinning units while my Billmen leap into the gaps, with my cavalry flanking/chasing annoying skirmish units.
Billmen are the weapon of choice in my army, I only use them with longbowmen and whatever Knights I have at the time - usually Royal + Feudal - sometimes chivalric, sometimes not even with any cavalry save a generals unit. Playing as English I usually pump them out of Mercia with master speaker maker and master armourer and then send them to Navarre or Sweden to upgrade the weapons with the iron.
The golden horde can prove a bit of a problem as I think everyone in their army fires at you - you take a lot of casualties but the Billmen just chew through everything by the end!
Put them in any forest and decrease your casualties, or include halbs as pincushions.Quote:
The golden horde can prove a bit of a problem as I think everyone in their army fires at you - you take a lot of casualties but the Billmen just chew through everything by the end!
mfberg