playing as greeks

All of you who have played greeks on vh/vh, isn't field battle incredibly frustrating? I mean, your cavalry stinks, your other soldiers are slow. You have to constantly choose flat regions to fight, and if the battle field has a little elevation and hills, mountains, you are toast. If your guys are not in phalanx, they are toast.

I am also tired of city battles. You know how hoplites are supposed to be good in the streets right? Well, I was attacking the Messana, I sent 5 greek cavalry galloping to kill Cornelius Scipio and his 100 retainers, well, all 5 of them routed. I then sent 2 armored hoplites but, what happend was, you know that square right, instead of heading straight for Cornelius Scipio, my guys chose to walk on the road lining the square, and some how turn toward the center of the square when they are halfway down one side of the square, why CANT they walk along the diagonal????!!!! Well, at this time, Cornelius charged into the sides of the armored hoplites, and well I think you all know what happend next.

THE HAPPENED TO ME .. I WANTED TO THROWGH MY SELF FROM THE WINDOW :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: .
I think it is a bug and CA must fix it in the coming pach or expansion .

Don't play on VH battle setting... u rout too quickly.

Also, in most cases you don't HAVE to fight field battles you know ;) they can field as many troops as they want in the field i'll just sail around and take their city!!!!

I find that in lower diffuculty settings milita calvary are acturally quiet decent and a saving grace for the greeks in the field to acturally have some decent flexibility.

And yes the square behavior is extremely annoying

the city plaza bug is annoying. this really cuts the surrounding ability in the plaza

I just started a Greek campaign for the first time with my son and am finding it fun. The initial strategic situation is very interesting - we've been enmeshed in wars with the Macedonians and Romans from the word go. Tactically, Greeks seem to be ok. The phalanx seems pretty invulnerable to AI heavy infantry (apart from other phalanxes) - just march at them head on and watch them futilely impale themselves. The lack of decent cavalry seems a "fair" balancing factor. The only real frustration I have is the inability of my main infantry units to man siege towers or battering rams.

Can't hoplites man towers, just they are useless at it? (ie. have to fight with a sword). I know in my Thrace campaign I've sent my phalanx pikemen up over walls (how they fit the pike in the siege tower is beyond me).

Well, Armoted Hoplites ROCK!!!
And you get then with just 3rd level barracks.

They can beat almost everything, even with swords if necessary.

The city plaza feature. I like that one :wall:

I haven't played much with them (mostly against them), but those Spartans are freaking terminators. They just won't rout, won't die, won't give up untill they've kicked your ass thoroughly. I'd feel pretty worried about sending any infantry against them even on the walls where they'd have to stick to their swords.

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Originally Posted by dgb

Can't hoplites man towers, just they are useless at it? (ie. have to fight with a sword). I know in my Thrace campaign I've sent my phalanx pikemen up over walls (how they fit the pike in the siege tower is beyond me).

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I am not very experienced playing phalanx armies, but in the setup stage of a siege battle, when I tried to get my hoplites - vanilla, militia, armoured and Spartan - to man a ram or a siege tower, I'm told that the unit can't undertake that action. Makes no sense to me. Had to get my rhodian slingers to man the ram and gave up on the siege tower battle (no way I'm sending Rhodians up a siege tower to contest a wall!).

I don't recall such a problem with my German spear warbands - who also operate as a phalanx - though.

If anyone else can confirm this, I'll suggest it as a "bug" or at least bad feature!

Greeks are pretty awsome earlier on but later on, yes they do stink. Does anyone know how to add troops to other factions? I might give the Greeks Companion Cavelry.

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

I am not very experienced playing phalanx armies, but in the setup stage of a siege battle, when I tried to get my hoplites - vanilla, militia, armoured and Spartan - to man a ram or a siege tower, I'm told that the unit can't undertake that action. Makes no sense to me. Had to get my rhodian slingers to man the ram and gave up on the siege tower battle (no way I'm sending Rhodians up a siege tower to contest a wall!).

I don't recall such a problem with my German spear warbands - who also operate as a phalanx - though.

If anyone else can confirm this, I'll suggest it as a "bug" or at least bad feature!

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You have to turn off phalanx mode then they can be assigned siege equipment ~;)

The Greeks are one of the easiest factions to play as IMO, you just have to get used to fighting big defensive battles then counter attacking in the next turn rather than the usual Roman steamroller approach!

Take them off phalanx formation, and then they can man the ram.

Think about it. When they are in the phalanx, they can't exactly work the ram or seige tower.

But is this ever explained in the manual? I doubt it.

Militia cavalry as noted above are the savers for the greeks, learn how to use them fast. They operate best in pairs, and require a lot of micromanaging, but with them working together, they can take out a legionary cohort with hardly any losses.

The AI tends to get disrupted a lot by feints from then, use this to draw units into a two on one situation, then try and hit them in both flanks simultaneously. Against post marius romans, often the legionaries will try and go testudo after a few volleys. Hit them just as they begin to flick their shields up with both units and it will crumble.

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Originally Posted by myz

All of you who have played greeks on vh/vh, isn't field battle incredibly frustrating? I mean, your cavalry stinks, your other soldiers are slow.

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I'm doing fine as Thrace in RTR, they are Greeks too but my Thracians are even weaker than the Greeks themselves. I play on VH/VH and regularly beat the pants off everyone with the lowliest combat unit up from peasants, the Greek levies, backed up with a few units of horse archers.

The horse archers are even weaker than Greek cav but they do fine anyhow. I use them to charge more than I use them as missile troops.

The procedure is pretty simply really. Pin the enemy infantry with your spear units then hit 'em from behind with your cav. Works like a charm every time. It's a bit more complicated if the enemy are fielding cav as well, then I try to gang up on the enemy cav with my cav and take them out one by one, while avoiding combat with my inf. Once youv'e got rid of the cav, you can ride down the missile units, and then you can start the infantry battle, again by just pinning the enemy inf with your pointy sticks and then hitting 'em from behind with the cav.

Phalanx units are not slow, they can move pretty much as fast as any other foot unit, just take them out of phalanx formation and they can run.

As for square battles, just wait until you've got all your units in place in the streets immediately around the square. Don't enter the square itself until you can do it with overwhelming force. Then advance slowly with your infantry. Once they've engaged the enemy, it's simply a matter of hitting 'em in the rear with the cav again. No dramas. Just exercise a little patience and you won't have a problem.

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Originally Posted by Conqueror

I haven't played much with them (mostly against them), but those Spartans are freaking terminators. They just won't rout, won't die, won't give up untill they've kicked your ass thoroughly. I'd feel pretty worried about sending any infantry against them even on the walls where they'd have to stick to their swords.

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Easy, just use archers.

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Originally Posted by screwtype

Phalanx units are not slow, they can move pretty much as fast as any other foot unit, just take them out of phalanx formation and they can run.

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That's true, but the transformation isn't fast enough for them to be able to do it effectively when the enemy is nearby. While a fight is ongoing, you basically have to keep them in phalanx in my experience.

People, learn to use hoplites out of phalanx formation. Don't complain that they are slow. Turn off phalanx, run into position and then turn it back on when ou are about to engage the enemy.

Having the enemy flank shredded by a phalanx is great and brutal for them. Even better is having a hoplite unit rear attack the enemy. Stuck between two rows of sharp spears is a death spell for any unit.

Militia cav is truly awesome. They are great harassers and can make your phalanx opponents tired before they hit you (the AI is too dumb to take them out of phalanx as long as you have troops running near them). They are also fast and thus good rout chasers as well as being able to run off enemy HAs which are the bane of every Greek army.

Militia cav also make up for your lack of heavy cavalry. Harass the enemies horses and let them give chase right into your spears, maybe taking an arrow shower or two along the way. Combining them with greek cavalry is nice too for anti-cav work.

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Originally Posted by dgb

That's true, but the transformation isn't fast enough for them to be able to do it effectively when the enemy is nearby. While a fight is ongoing, you basically have to keep them in phalanx in my experience.

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It's plenty fast enough. Just make sure you get them into phalanx before the combat begins.

I frequently take my units on the flanks out of phalanx, run them quickly behind enemy units engaged with my main line, then put them back into phalanx and march them into the back of the enemy. No drama.

Of course, it may depend somewhat on your playing style. If you are one of those hardy types who never uses the pause button, you are going to have trouble. But with judicious use of pause, maneouvring your phalanxes shouldn't be hard at all.

Grrrrrrrrr have the worst luck in the world grrrrrrrrrrrrrr 2 of my cities just got bribed Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr im being attaked from all sides grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr im basicly dead.
Thats the Greeks for you.

Well the Greeks have a tough time because everyone hates them and their positioned right in the centre of the map. I mean the Romans are after you in the second turn!

Well, the greeks have a very unenviable world position to occupy, just like Carthage, i.e. spread out everywhere. So if you fight concentrated, Grande Armee style, you're in trouble. ^_^ On the tactical map I'm pretty sure they can solve any tactical problem by just marching head-on, or doing the gap exploitation thing. But strategically, well, they have a terrible starting time. *looks suggestively at tibilicus' post about bribes*

They are quite nice I think, especially since Carthage and the Scipii keep attacking Syracuse, with its nice stone walls... Kept defeating large enemy stacks with a few hoplites, my general and the walls (getting some Carthaginian elephants to charge to their deaths under the fire from the gates was quite satisfying...

The general in Syracuse ('Dionysios of Sparta') was known quite soon as 'Dionysios the Infantryman', but later he got to be called 'Dionysios the Conqueror', 'the Mighty' and eventually 'the Cunning'. He now resides in Arminium, and all the Romans are quit dead.

yesterday encountered those spartans for the first time, played as brutii and had it all going verwy well, held the line nicely against 2 waves of phalanxes (a few armored). then saw three more. Later I realized that one was a Spartan! When I looked again, 3 or four hastati were running of the field. Nothing I could do to stop those guys, my general went from 40 to 2 men and routed while crashing into their rear! Whats to stop these guys? Nukes?

I love playing the greeks. I ewither give up Syracuse or perform a holding action to prevent the Scipii from expanding too much, Rhodes and the other satellite rarely get attacked in the beginning and Sparta can take on Macedon on its own. Tactically it is even easier, just make a long or circular formation to preventy flanking and get soem light cavalry inside the formation and wait for the enemy to pile up.