BP's banning

As much as explicit insults are perhaps unwarranted, I do not think that Byzantine_Prince's banning was entirely fair. His last post was tempered and devoid of base commentary. Also, The Wizard's commentary about Byzantine Prince's sense of honour and nationalistic sentiment was as uncalled for as Byzantine Prince's own retorts, for which BP was punished and The Wizard was not. At the very least, The Wizard should be reprimanded if Byzantine Prince is to be.

Of course, The Wizard may have already been, but I am only commenting on what I have seen.

To be honest i though the Wizard was provoked by BP and a few others in the thread who were diving in on him on all angles. I would have gave it to BP with both barrells if he would have talked to me like that.

The geezer is rude and annoying to most people on these boards and he brings it all on himself..

You may or may not be aware that BP is still here he just cant post. I am sure he is reading this right now. I just thought i would tell you as if and when he comes back; He aint going to be happy.............

Nah I can post. I just hate the fact that I can't get the backroom anymore, that's not even where I'm rude most of the time.

hmm, the argument was in the monastery but your banned from the backroom?

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He aint going to be happy

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I'm just giving my opinion, if he don't like it i couldn't give a shite to be honest

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Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

The geezer is rude ... to most people on these boards and he brings it all on himself..

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Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

if he don't like it i couldn't give a shite to be honest

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:laugh:

You see BP i have been on these forums for a while now and have meet alot of sound and decent people who keep insults to a minimum and treat others with respect. You don't seem to have that and the only way you get your point over is by being rude to people and try dumbing them down.


People know me quite well on these boards and know I would only speak to an individual like that if they deserved it and lets be honest you do deserve it.

No point flaming BP in here it solves nothing lads.

As for the banning of BP, I didn't see the thread which he was banned for, but from what I know of his other posts he has had it coming even though he has had multiple warnings. I think it is very unrealistic to say a ban on BP was out of line. The mods don't ban many people or give warnings without real reasons.

Ok Blind king of Bohemia, He may or he may not be a total ass BP. I dont really know i have not been here to long and dont really post in the backroom. The point is I think this discusion should end here. Or other wise i can see were it is going.
With all respect
Tibilicus.

What was BP banned for?

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I just hate the fact that I can't get the backroom anymore

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Same here. I can't observe you all and make observations for my sociology project i'm doing at school. I couldn't give a rats ass if i can't view the library, but not viewing the backroom takes the biscuit. And why can't i have my member title and siggy back? I want to be called a lesbian rebel, and put odd things into my siggy!!!

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Originally Posted by Mikeus Caesar

Same here. I can't observe you all and make observations for my sociology project i'm doing at school. I couldn't give a rats ass if i can't view the library, but not viewing the backroom takes the biscuit. And why can't i have my member title and siggy back? I want to be called a lesbian rebel, and put odd things into my siggy!!!

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part of your punishment ~:)

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I can't observe you all and make observations for my sociology project i'm doing at school.

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thats a good one ~;)

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Originally Posted by King Henry V

What was BP banned for?

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That's a good question. I just read the thread in question, and unless BP's posts have been edited, I have absoluetly no idea why he would have been punished for his conduct in that thread. The most insulting thing he said to Wiz was essentially "you don't know what you are talking about." That seems a bit tame to warrant a banning, IMHO. Wiz on the other hand, (in my opinion) started deliberately pushing BP's buttons when he realized how sensitive he was about his language by saying things like:

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Originally Posted by The Wizard

However, I'm quite afraid I'm going to have to continue insulting your 'holy' language. A language I find about as pleasing to the ear as German, and that is certainly no compliment. But, I fear I must take the debate to you about this less-than-pleasing language because I want clarity and not disparate claims.

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While that comment doesn't technically break any Org rules because it's not an insult directed at a person, it is an insult towards a person's culture/heritage, and nothing good can come of that.

I realize that BP's past behavior has perhaps not inclined the mods to give him the benefit of the doubt, but in this case it seems quite clear that another's behavior that was much worse has gone unpunished and fairness has been cheated.

Anyway, this is all just my opinion, and I realize it will be taken with a grain of salt as I myself have been known to push the limits of civility on occasion, but I needed to have my say.

Thanks for reading.

:bow:

THREAD; Byazntium name or a scholar error

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

Good lord, not another ancient Greek debate... Wiz, stay out of it, it's hopless...

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Originally Posted by Steppe Merc

He did not run away. I was merely posting advice to strategically withdraw from a battle that cannot be won, and has no tactical advatange to be confored to him if he does indeed win.

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The only one in that whole thread was Steppe Merc. They all should have justed walked away. BP threw the first insult and The Wizard threw them back. I think they should both have been given a warning or neither.

But Byzantine_Prince waxes far too lyrical about Greece. "Insults the language of my ancestors"?!? What's the guy on! "The holy language of my ancestors." Holy?!? Again, he needs to lay off the Greek sycophancy a bit. I'm as patriotic as the next man, but this is going too far. He lives in Canada for Christ's sake! Wizard inadvertantly wrote what HE KNEW, and THOUGHT to be right. He may have been wrong, I know little about the Greek language, but why bite the guy's throat off? BP and Elias ganged up on Wizard in an extremely hostile matter, one which could have been sorted by friendly diplomacy, with Wizard holding his head high in the argument throughout. If that was me, believe this, BP would have been countered a lot more harshly. :whip: Furthermore, with BP's rudeness and indignancy towards forum members in the past, why the hell should Wiz respect his views in any way?!?

If he comes out and says "The Greek tongue sucks" or is purposely detrimental about it, fine, lay into the guy. How you can be insulted and lose respect for someone merely because they say something wrong about a tongue you don't even speak? You can dish it out BP, immensely, so you should learn to take a little back as well. Lighten up dude.

I think we can all learn a lot from Gregoshi's eloquant post to close the thread. There's no need to be falling out with people over an Internet forum over a small part of the pronunciation of an ancient language - don't be so pedantic; life's far too short. Perhaps Wizard should have been warned too for his subsequent conduct, but he did not start the heatedness.

BKB

Gregoshi was offended by what I stand for, not what I said. I can't for the life of me see what is so insulting in saying someone doesn't what he's talking about when it's in fact the truth. Gregoshi saw it fit to ignore the comment:

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"However, I'm quite afraid I'm going to have to continue insulting your 'holy' language. A language I find about as pleasing to the ear as German, and that is certainly no compliment."

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Which not only insulting to me, but to all greeks and perhaps even Germans. Instead he punishes me twice, for saying the absolute truth. Well not that I care that much about my warn state on a website, but I don't think I should be limited to the backroom because some mod thought I was being offencive(which I wasn't).

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Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

But Byzantine_Prince waxes far too lyrical about Greece. "Insults the language of my ancestors"?!? What's the guy on! "The holy language of my ancestors." Holy?!? Again, he needs to lay off the Greek sycophancy a bit. I'm as patriotic as the next man, but this is going too far. He lives in Canada for Christ's sake! Wizard inadvertantly wrote what HE KNEW, and THOUGHT to be right. He may have been wrong, I know little about the Greek language, but why bite the guy's throat off?

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Examples please? Again, the worst thing that BP said in that thread was "you don't know what you're talking about."

Pretty tame.

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Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

BP and Elias ganged up on Wizard in an extremely hostile matter, one which could have been sorted by friendly diplomacy, with Wizard holding his head high in the argument throughout.

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I think you are letting BP's past behavior color your view of what was really said in that thread. I noted nothing that indicated any extreme hostility. And Wiz was certainly not taking the high road. I'll quote the same bit again:

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Originally Posted by The Wizard

However, I'm quite afraid I'm going to have to continue insulting your 'holy' language. A language I find about as pleasing to the ear as German, and that is certainly no compliment. But, I fear I must take the debate to you about this less-than-pleasing language because I want clarity and not disparate claims.

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He is more or less saying "your language sounds like shite." Language is an intimate part of a person's culture and identity. Insluting one's language is a very personal and hurtful thing to do. If I had made a comment like that to somebody about their language, not only would I fully expect them to unload on me with both barrels, but I imagine there would have been a warning from the mods in my PM box very quickly.

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Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

If that was me, believe this, BP would have been countered a lot more harshly. :whip: Furthermore, with BP's rudeness and indignancy towards forum members in the past, why the hell should Wiz respect his views in any way?!?

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Sorry, but that sounds a little too much like "But your honor, this girl has been such a slut in the past, she was just asking to be raped." If BP had done things in the past to warrant banning, then he should have been banned for those actions at the time. But banning him for his conduct in the thread in question was extremely heavy handed.

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Originally Posted by The Blind King of Bohemia

If he comes out and says "The Greek tongue sucks" or is purposely detrimental about it, fine, lay into the guy.

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Actually, Wiz did do that. Please see above. In my view, it appears that BP simply made made the mistake of arguing against one of the Org's "sacred cows" (there are a few of them: people who have been here so long and have so many friends that they seem to garner majority support no matter how rude they are in an argument).

Anyway, I know that comment may make some of you mad, but I can take it: tell me how wrong I am...

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But banning him for his conduct in the thread in question was extremely heavy handed.

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Just to clarify, BP wasn't banned for his actions in this thread-he recieved a warning, which pushed him over the edge of a banned user account.

wow our warning levels go up to 6 now?

They could go up to whatever you want, I believe. They just don't do anything after five.

Heh. Well I'm glad I'm not the highest anymore. Or not glad, depending on what perspective I'm analyzing. Ok, enough of my tangent.

well, i've tried to stay off this forum for a while, due to recent events involving myself, but i do check every week or so. Seriously, the warning was fully justified imo, and if theat banned him, then so be it.

If he has reached the quota for banning, it is obvious he has acted like an asshat too many times, and he deserves what he gets.

Reading through the thread in question, it is obvious BP is proud of his heritage, but seriously, why the need to criticze everyones input. Myself and BKB partake in a course at University that includes a subject entitled 'Greece and the Greeks' which follows the evolution of the greeks and their society up until modern times. If we had made any input, would you have thrown out our observations as easily as you did to others, just because you 'studied ancient greek at school'.

Just because you may be greek and have knowledge about it, does not give you the right to act like gods gift to greek historians. You were well out of line, and tbh, i know alot about overstepping boundaries.

German is very pleasing to the ear in my opinion, very. And to the eyes. And it's alot easier to learn then english, IMHO. Though I still can't spell anything, but I have that trouble with english too with certain words, and I'm only on my 2nd semester of German and I've gotten over it with many words.
Sorry for the off topicness, I just noticed that up there.

My point was that The Wizard got off without a warning, even if BP's warning resulted in a ban when compounded with his other punishments.

Point of Order: You ( and no one) knows what sanctions may or may not have been applied to anyone. Warnings under '3' are visible only to staff. Typically, much PM traffic ensues before sanctions are applied. Those of you who have been sanctioned in the past know that.

We use Private Messages so as to not further embarrass unruly members, and to prevent (or at least decrease) flamewars, side-choosings, and the like.

If your allegation is that Gregoshi showed partiality in his application of sanction, I vehemently dispute it. You won't find a fairer, more lenient Moderator on the internet.

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Originally Posted by NeonGod

Of course, The Wizard may have already been, but I am only commenting on what I have seen.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Warnings under '3' are visible only to staff.

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by KukriKhan

If your allegation is that Gregoshi showed partiality in his application of sanction, I vehemently dispute it. You won't find a fairer, more lenient Moderator on the internet.

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My "allegation" is a supposition, that BP and The Wizard acted none in difference to one another within the dispute, and if BP was disciplined for it, so should have been the Wiz. Of course, since this information is not privy to me, whether or not the Wiz was warned remains beyond my knowledge, considering policy.

In your eyes, BP's statement may seem trivial, but it was the last straw in a long string of abusive posts BP had directed at The Wiz. Up until the post in which The Wiz became unhinged, he had ignored BP's insults time and time again. A couple of months ago I even PMed The Wiz to express my appreciation that he was not embroiling himself in a flame war with BP.

The level of punishment was tailored to conduct of the patron. BP has been a problem child from day one. I've spent countless hours dealing with him and the fallout from his posts. All this without issuing a warning point to him. He has had numerous "second" chances - too many I'm sure some will say. His second chances with me are done as he refuses to abide by our forum rules time and time again. The fact that I had to issue two warnings to him within 26 hours demostrates this. He tells me that I'm punishing him for speaking the truth. This is not correct. I have punished him for not speaking "the truth" in a civil manner. That is all I want from him. I expect it from everyone else and he is no exception.

On the other hand, The Wiz has been a good patron of the Monastery (see paragraph above). Therefore he only received a lengthy PM from me regarding his conduct and future actions. In other words, I gave him the same consideration I gave multiple times to BP - a second chance.

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

but I don't think I should be limited to the backroom because some mod thought I was being offencive(which I wasn't).

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Actually, as a good share of the warnings that ultimately led to your banning came from violations of the forum rules in Backroom threads (Gregoshi's warning was indeed only the last straw), I don't think it's inappropriate at all that you are banned from the Backroom.

If somebody feels that he has the right to be offensive (as you previously stated) than this person should better be man enough to live with the consequences of exercising this perceived right.

Yet, after receiving lots of PMs and no-point warnings that pointed out violations of the forum rules to you, and after countless promises from your side to improve - and even starting several begging threads in the Watchtower to persuade Tosa to reduce your warning level - you still did not change your behaviour in the slightest way.

You know the forum rules, various moderators have in the past been rather lenient with you and trusted that you might improve your behaviour, you decided that it is your right to ignore the forum rules and any warnings. Now you are yet again confronted with some (minor I would like to pint out) consequences, and act like a poor innocent child on which the moderators have decided to gang up.
A lot of words come to mind to describe such behaviour - none of which would be appropriate for me to use here.

Sorry, for discussing this in the open - this would usually not be the style I prefer - but considering the way this thread went, I had the feeling that some things needed to be put into perspective. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Goofball

it appears that BP simply made made the mistake of arguing against one of the Org's "sacred cows" (there are a few of them: people who have been here so long and have so many friends that they seem to garner majority support no matter how rude they are in an argument).

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@ the staff: You forgot to give me the "Sacred Cow" list when I started as a moderator :stare: