Hi everyone...
Also, as the other post, I want articles and info about the famous and powerful Sipahis of the Porte. Can you give me some info?
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Hi everyone...
Also, as the other post, I want articles and info about the famous and powerful Sipahis of the Porte. Can you give me some info?
They were the spahi cavalry that formed the personal guard of the Ottoman sultan, outside of the yeni çerii corps. Their name derives from the diplomatic term for the Ottoman empire -- the Sublime Porte, after the entrance to the divan of foreign affairs at the Topkapı palace in Istanbul.
~Wiz
I'm not amazed any more Wiz... I'm definitely amazed...
Anyways, thanks for the info..... Apart from this, I want good info about the Kataphraktoi!!!
Oh, before I forget, the Sublime Porte was the name for the outer court, i.e. the place where embassies from other nations came to, and therefore also referred to as the Outer Porte IIRC, the Inner Porte being the harem and personal court of the Padishah.
~Wiz
I think that Sipahi of the Porte isn't a very accurate term, since spahis were part of a somewhat "feudal" aspect of the Ottoman military system, while the personal guard of the sultan did come from the Kapıkulu Corps, the well-known institution that provided the Janissaries (through the devşirme). MTW could use the term 'müteferrika' ,them being the elite among the elite, comprised of nobles and individuals of high standing as well.
This site could provide some useful info regarding Ottoman armies
http://www.theottomans.org/english/index.asp
..and this has some good pics and stuff;)
http://www.tuerkenbeute.de/
No, indeed, it is not a very correct term. But do remember that it was the Sultan's own spahis that took care of the yeni çerii at last.
~Wiz
Yes, but spahis weren't an elite "household" unit of the Sultan, as the name in question suggests, and furthermore, during the first decades of the 19th century, they didn't function in the same way as their predecessors, as the recruitment policies were being altered, with modernisation making its first weak steps in matters of army and state. AFAIR, the troops mustered in the eve of the 1826 events were prime parts of the "modern army" Mahmud II and the previous sultans wished to form.
In the end, artillery saved the day again, placing the tombstone on the janissaries' grave.
They where equal to feudal knights in the west they had different weapons and fought differently but they where NOOOOT personal guard of the Sultan.
They where the pilers of ''TIMARIOT'' system like the feud in the west timar was land unit in the Ottoman Sultanate by which a spahi-lord horseman would serv and go into war for right to use the land.
For more read about Ottoman culture times from late 14th century to about early 16th century.
Magister Pediyum, i think what you wrote applies to sipahis in general, but it was my impression that the original question was asking about a specific designation of sipahis. did the 'sipahis of the porte' have timars all over the empire too? i don't know. am just asking.
The answer according to me:Quote:
did the 'sipahis of the porte' have timars all over the empire too? i don't know. am just asking.
Quote:
but spahis weren't an elite "household" unit of the Sultan, as the name in question suggests,
Therefore if we accept the correctness of the above (yes, it's open to questioning, I'm not even near an expert in this issue - or any that is heh), then it's pretty straighforward that they weren't the unit described in VI and even the name is pretty confusing to people remotely familiar with the "ottoman" counterpart of feudalism.Quote:
while the personal guard of the sultan did come from the Kapıkulu Corps, the well-known institution that provided the Janissaries (through the devşirme). MTW could use the term 'müteferrika' ,them being the elite among the elite, comprised of nobles and individuals of high standing as well.
The Spahis where elite of the ottoman cavalry .Pretty much from times of Emir Orhan in first half of the 14th century yeni çerii corps was and remaind for a long period of time the single most trusted unit whith in the Ottoman system so they where personal guard of rulers.
Spahis where prone to upprisings,they pasted titles to their sons and so on so a new generation of spahis came,we have the tendency to eliminate old spahi houses before they could start rebellion.One example is Celia upprisings in central Anatolia during the rain of Sultan Bayazid,rebellion of sultans brother Djem which was supporteded by spahi timariot system one effecitve way of dealing whith rebellions is to have a 100% relalibal guard which is yeni çerii corps.
As for this
Quote:
did the Spahis of the porte' have timars all over the empire too? i don't know. am just asking.
It possible but the strict rule for timariot system was not to give to much of timars to a single house for it may become to powerfull for sultans taste :book:
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Very controversial topic....
We(all of us who posted here) should check some good books to see what the Sipahis of the Porte really were.
Nah, there isn't any controversy at all, it's just that Afsin provides an explanation by using the word "süvari/sipahi" using its central meaning [that is cavalry, with sipahi being a loan from farsi (سپاهی ) meaning soldier], while others (including myself) directly connected the word with the name of a military unit. The magic word here is Kapıkulu, and the cavalry serving in the specific corps being better described as "müteferrika" stationed at all times near the sultan and protecting him from the increasingly rebelious janissaries....ofcourse Kapıkulu does mean servant of the Porte and many assorted cavalry units were included in the specific corps.
The word Spahi is taken from Persian سپاهی Sipâhi meaning "soldier".So they where elite cavalryry but they derived from yeni çerii corps so we could call them maunted yeni çerii.
A timariot (or timar holder; timarlu in Turkish) was an irregular cavalryman
that served the Ottoman sultan and in return was granted a fief called a timar . The timariots had to assemble with the army when at war, and had to take care of the land entrusted to him in times of peace. When at war, the timariot had to bring his own equipment and in addition a number of armed retainers (cebelu). Food was supplied during campaign.
In this way, the Ottomans could quickly muster a large army. When the war was over the warriors returned to their lands, and in that way the sultan did not have to support them when he didn't need them. In addition, the sultan's lands were taken care of. Local peasants were subjects to the timariot. Law and order was kept, taxes were collected and bandits were brought to justice.
The system of timars was organized during the reign of Orhan I (1326-1359). The Sultan granted officers fiefs with local peasants subjected to their rule in an arrangement similar to European feudal fiefs. They were an important part of the Ottoman army, especially for being so easily supportable, and kept that status until the early 17th century. The titles and lands of the timar holders remained in use much longer than that.
When on campaign, the timariots were organized into regiments called alays that were commanded by alay beys (or beg). Larger units were the sanjak (or sançak) regiments or livas (standard, banner), commanded by sanjak beys. At the top were the province governors, the beylerbeys. A province in the 16th century could muster some thousand timariots, according to the size of the province. In 1525 the total number of timar holders were 37 818, according to the tax rolls. The number of armed retainers was estimated to 50 000. Of course, these great numbers were spread out all over the empire, and could not possibly serve in one campaign at a time. ~:cheers:
Yes, but you miss the point. You are talking of the feudal spahis, those that were indeed the Turkish counterpart to the European knights.
What CA has deemed to incorrectly (or, at best, unclearly) call 'Sipahis of the Porte' were actually soldiers part of the Kapıkulu corps, a personal corps of loyal troops protecting the Padishah at all times from the unreliable yeni çerii (amongst others, of course). They were not feudal, but personally funded by the Sultan's treasury. This Kapıkulu corps did not only consist of these 'royal knights', so to say, but also of other soldier types. As stated before, the word müteferrika describes them better.
~Wiz