Before the Great Depression
Prior to 1929, there were no less than 11 recessions and minor depressions in the USA. They swallowed farm families whole - where some grew stronger, others migrated to the cities to attempt to survive. Where once a family was comfortable (working 12-16 hour days - 'cept Sunday, on their land to get by); now they worked 16 hour days in factories, mines, mills, slaughter houses, etc. 7 days a week and had to buy their goods from the company store - which kept them in debt and servitude to the "company".
Prior to 1929, people believed that everyone was on their own - families should provide and the governemnt be damned. For the old, well one relative or another would abide by them - 'til they could pawn them off on another one. Or, they died - starved, committed suicide, or ........
Prior to 1929, there was no "safety net" that permitted none but the very brave to take a chance at the gold ring. There were poor farms, where debtors paid off their debts or starved to death (with their entire family). The pay was absurd, and the price of a loaf of bread was often a days wages. One in debt, never got to the principle of what was owed - unless an outsider bailed them out. BTW, one could go to a poor farm for owing as little as $50 (the poor farms bought the debt - cool, huh?).
From 1930-35, tens of thousand (if not a million) of family farms were left bankrupt and the families dispossessed from their former traditional life style (and belief in America). We were a step away from our own October Revolution. And, why not? After all it seemed all the "governement cared about was "business as usual" and getting back to the good old days of stopping unionization, and continuining the growth the absolute wealthiest of families. (Sound familiar, yet?)
Then, something began to happen that really hadn't been thought of before - a president (his advisors) submitted a proposal that would create a "safety net" for the common folk, the elderly. Something that might assure that no American went hungry, and that the common man could take a risk and become wealthy (if he failed - well, his debt was forgiven). Social Security was born, and bankruptcy for the common man began (the Republicans Party has been trying to end them ever since - and are now within a breath of returning us to 1929).
Personally, I listened to the stories of my Grandparents - how they wrapped ham bones and placed them on top of the trash for a scavaging elder couple - and wept that they couldn't afford to do more. How entire families begged in the streets, and how some (to proud to do so) starved or committed suicide. End of one dream, beginning of another. How they lost their farm, after 130+ years and worked for others as "sharecroppers" of a sort. How a pig farmer (once the wealthiest man in the county) went nuts and slaughtered all his hogs - and then his family, and himself). How men sold (tried) cars worth a $1,000 for $10. How, farmers had to sell their lands for a tenth of their value and move to the city. How, bankers claiming "banktuptcy" (under the law of the times) were still able to be the fronts for those acquiring the lands - seems some had cash - collatoral. [Think maybe the depressions, recessions might just be away for the truely wealthy to erase the rich? The new rich, that is.]
1935, FDR proposed a plan that assured that all Americans would be allowed a small assurance that their government cared about their welfare, and would not permit the elderly to go unrecognized for their contributions to the nation (their work, their service, their taxes). He created Social Security, and other programs that were meant to assure that the weakest amongst us could survive. Even if they had been unable to save moneys during it. After all, they had still paid taxes.
The Republicans of the time accused FDR of being a Communist (or atleast a Socialist), not caring enough for business and concerning the welfare of the nation as having something to do with its people. How nuts is that? After all, "The business of America, is business". Good old Slient Cal (Calvin Coolidge, the patrian saint of Reagan) said so.
I read something to day, that brought this rant to mind - I'ld like to share it. I already know the reception it will receive from those comfortable in the idea that 1929 can never happen to them. But, for the rest of you, I want to assure you there is a future ('til they assassinate him, of course).
http://www.washingtonspectator.com/a...s/20050601obar
Atleast, we have one man willing to call Bush43's proposal for SS "reform" what it really is.
Please, read Osama's statement before calling him d____n____r. After all, if he can survive - he may be our Prez in 7 0r 11 years. [hope springs eternal that America can return to caring about Americans]
:balloon2:
Re: Before the Great Depression
Re: Before the Great Depression
Quote:
Originally Posted by KafirChobee
From 1930-35, tens of thousand (if not a million) of family farms were left bankrupt and the families dispossessed from their former traditional life style (and belief in America). We were a step away from our own October Revolution.
Not really.
Quote:
And, why not? After all it seemed all the "governement cared about was "business as usual" and getting back to the good old days of stopping unionization, and continuining the growth the absolute wealthiest of families. (Sound familiar, yet?)
Unions are a good thing. The sticky point is when unions are applied to the public sphere. In a government arena the vital labor vs. owner/management relation doesn't exist and subsequently dispute resolution is skewed.
Quote:
Then, something began to happen that really hadn't been thought of before - a president (his advisors) submitted a proposal that would create a "safety net" for the common folk, the elderly. Something that might assure that no American went hungry, and that the common man could take a risk and become wealthy (if he failed - well, his debt was forgiven). Social Security was born, and bankruptcy for the common man began (the Republicans Party has been trying to end them ever since - and are now within a breath of returning us to 1929).
The nanny state is too well entrenched to be anywhere close to disappearing. The Administration's proposals are geared around what are called: an ownership society. The basic thrust is to empower the common man in regards to mobile health insurance regardless of job change, choice in schooling via vouchers, choice in retirement via personal social security investments ala the Chile option etc.
Quote:
I want to assure you there is a future ('til they assassinate him, of course).
Is this really a good things to say?
Re: Before the Great Depression
Most people loosing their family fortune, specially farmers, do so due to bad planning. Running a business is always a bitch......
Re: Before the Great Depression
Quote:
Most people loosing their family fortune, specially farmers, do so due to bad planning. Running a business is always a bitch.....
Its strange Kafir bemoans bankrupcy when I would imagine him to be opposed to corporate welfare. If you cant compete its time to find a new line of work
Re: Before the Great Depression
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Its strange Kafir bemoans bankrupcy when I would imagine him to be opposed to corporate welfare. If you cant compete its time to find a new line of work
Not real sure what this means. But, yes, I am opposed to corporate bailouts by our government with our tax dollars - and their being allowed to renege (on their promise to their employees) on the retirement fund issue. All, while the higherachy of these maintain their sallary base and voting themselves bonuses - while at the same time threatening to cut jobs unless the employees take significant decreases in pay and lose their health insurance.
We live in a double standard world of capitalism. It maybe one of the reasons that Capitalism will ultimately fail. When the wealthy become so powerful, and greedy that they no longer see a reason to share the wealth - let alone share our tax burdens. Then laisse faire will end. Capitalism will end as we know it.
With the new bankruptcy laws that favor the wealthy and corporate group. With the tax cuts that favor them also. With the new "global" economy that justifies the outsourcing of high paid (formerly - when one can get for a dime what use to cost a dollar, while still charging the same price? Why not - there is no governance on profit, any more. Just look at the oild company profits.
Bemoaning? Sure, I'm upset that American companies have shown such disdain for their employees (that have been loyal to them for 20, 25, 30+ years). Sure, it grates me that we now live by ethical, moral and honesty standards that allow companies to get away with dumping on their employees - while giving billions to political campaigns to ensure they can get away with "it". But, bemoans? I think not.
Further. Attempting to blame the failure of farmers losing their land during the depression (and Reagan's recession) on them, versus that there were no markets for their goods (or, as was Reagan's case enforced pricing - what a farmer could get for that bushel of corn he grew), the dust bowl, that two bad harvests in a row can put a single family farm on the edge of ruin - demonstrates either your ignorance of farming, or callousness toward them.
Farm subsidies was originally created for single family farms. To ensure their existance. Today, it is a subsidy for the corporate farm industry. 90% of "hallowed" ground (paid not to grow) goes to corporate growers - and single family farms are forced to show cause - where as the corporate lawyers tell our government what is owed their corporate grower.
10,000 (atleast) farms were lost during the Great Depression. California passed laws barring "Okies" from entering their state, as did others. Half of Texas blew away to, along with Kansas, Missouri. Arkansas. Louisiana just about drowned. Pick up a book on the era, discover what hard times were like, and get ready for the one Bush43 is leading us into.
:balloon2:
Re: Before the Great Depression
I will swap to a better system the moment is created.
Capatilism sucks, just the rest of the economkc systems suck more.
Re: Before the Great Depression
Quote:
Originally Posted by KafirChobee
We live in a double standard world of capitalism. It maybe one of the reasons that Capitalism will ultimately fail. When the wealthy become so powerful, and greedy that they no longer see a reason to share the wealth - let alone share our tax burdens. Then laisse faire will end. Capitalism will end as we know it.
I think you misunderstand capitalism and its role in a modern society. Capitalism can never be used to run a state or a nation. It has no political structure in its pure form. Capitalism is the engine in a society. Entrepreneurs create companies, which create jobs, which creates a market etc etc. From the economical heart created, the state takes a part of its revenue to protect or oppress it.
Politic or even simplier, rulers, feed from the capitalism and try to keep it in a desired direction.
A capitalist doesn't understand social responsibility, environment or human rights. He follow the rules given to him and tries to create as much profit as possible. If the rules changes, so does he. If he comes in to monopoly, he will use this to his own benefits and nobody should expect anything else.
The capitalist is being controlled through legislation and law enforcement. If it's to hard, he leaves, if it's to soft, he abuse his role. Very simple actually.
Re: Before the Great Depression
I think people should revert to our tribalistic roles, where we were fairly self sufficient, money was almost non-existant and what we didn't have we could trade with someone who had something we needed, and we had something they needed. Much Cleaner that way. But we are too far gone for that to ever happen. Civilization will rise, and then collapse, and then rise again, and then Collapse, and this process will continue until we all dwindle into extinction... it's going to happen eventually. As far as Technology goes, I doubt Humanity has enough drive in it (well in my lifetime anyway) to leave Terra-forma and begin life anew elsewhere.
Re: Before the Great Depression
Well, as the tag line of my new DVD says. "Nobody stays on top forever". Not Communism, not capitalism, not empires, not democracies, not superpowers. They will all fall. American economies are already showing signs of a huge fallout with it's debt to China.
Now as for government bailouts there's not much to say. When before the Depression people were more independent of government, now they are treated in a more socialist way. What's wrong with a little socialism? Well as long as it doesn't lead to an olicharchy of the state(which is already there to an extent), nothing.
Re: Before the Great Depression
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
What's wrong with a little socialism?
It's oppressive ?? :book:
