"Mississippi Burning" An Old Man's Reputation?

Well this has been big news where I live but I hadnt seen much of it in the national news until now.

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PHILADELPHIA, Miss. — The murder case against a former Klansman charged in the slayings of three civil rights workers went to the jury Monday after prosecutors made an impassioned plea for a conviction, saying the victims' families have waited a long 41 years for someone to be brought to justice.

"Because the guilt of Edgar Ray Killen is so clear, there is only one question left," prosecutor Mark Duncan said in closing arguments. "Is a Neshoba County jury going to tell the rest of the world that we are not going to let Edgar Ray Killen (search) get away with murder any more? Not one day more."

The 12 jurors — nine white and three black — deliberated the fate of 80-year-old Edgar Ray Killen for about two and a half hours Monday before going home without a verdict. At the end of the day, the judge polled jurors to determine how they were progressing, and the panel reported being deadlocked 6-6. The judge then told them to return Tuesday to resume deliberations.

In his closing argument, defense Attorney James McIntyre (search) said that while events that occurred in 1964 were horrible and he had sympathy for the families of the victims, "the burden of proof does not reflect any guilt whatsoever" on the part of Killen, who could get life in prison.


McIntyre acknowledged that Killen was once a Klan member, but added: "He's not charged with being a member of the Klan, he's charged with murder." He then pointed out that no witnesses could put Killen at the scene of the crime. Killen did not take the stand.

"If you vote your conscience you are voting not guilty," he said. "There is a reasonable doubt."

The prosecutor said that while there was no testimony putting the murder weapon in Killen's hands, the evidence showed he was a Klan organizer and had played a personal role in preparations the day of the murders.

"He was in the Klan and he was a leader," Attorney General Jim Hood (search) said.

The trial has reopened one of the most notorious chapters of the civil rights era.

The victims — James Chaney (search), Andrew Goodman (search) and Michael Schwerner (search) — were helping register black voters when they were ambushed by a gang of Klansmen. They were beaten and shot, and their bodies were found 44 days later buried in an earthen dam.

FBI records and witnesses indicated Killen organized carloads of men who followed Chaney, a black man from Mississippi, and Schwerner and Goodman, white men from New York.

Their disappearance focused the nation's attention on the Jim Crow code of segregation in the South and helped spur passage of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Hood noted that the men disappeared on June 21, 1964. He said families of the three men "have waited 41 years — tomorrow it'll be 41 years — to see this case put before a jury on murder charges."

"Those three boys and their families were robbed of all the things that Edgar Ray Killen has been able to enjoy for these last 40 years," Duncan said.

Killen was tried in 1967 along with several others on federal charges of violating the victims' civil rights. The all-white jury deadlocked in Killen's case, but seven others were convicted. None served more than six years.

The defense rested earlier Monday after a former mayor testified that the Klan was a "peaceful organization."

Harlan Majure, who was mayor of this rural Mississippi town in the 1990s, said Killen was a good man and that the part-time preacher's Klan membership would not change his opinion.

Majure said the Klan "did a lot of good up here" and said he was not personally aware of the organization's bloody past.

"As far as I know it's a peaceful organization," Majure said. His comment was met with murmurs in the packed courtroom.

More on split jury:

It was unclear whether the 6-6 split dealt with guilt-innocence or murder-manslaughter. The deliberation was about an hour and 45 minutes.

"It's so difficult to speculate because we're not back there," said Andrew M. Sheldon of Atlanta, a jury consultant who assisted the prosecution.

Sheldon, who was a consultant in other civil rights cases, said the jury split could not be considered a deadlock until the judge ends the proceedings.

Defense attorney James McIntyre said Killen said pleased with the jury split. He said if the trial does end up with a deadlocked jury, "A hung jury would be a victory."'

Shelton said he felt "disappointed and sad" that the jury had hit a snag at this point in deliberations.

Judge at 5:30 — called the jury back in, asked the foreman, what was the situation at that point. We're split 6-6. If they took another vote tonite, she said 'no'

enough for tonite. come back tomorrow.

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Its been very interesting to see how public opinion has changed throughout this case. At first most people were glad to see this happening - but later when the facts of the case came out some started to question why so much money and effort was being made so some very old man could be trotted out in front of us in kevlar and prison orange.

This case is steeped in southern politics, racial elements, and revenge. No matter what happens there will be anger and plenty of good sound bytes. ~;)

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This case is steeped in southern politics, racial elements, and revenge

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And there was me thinking it was about justice.

Cases like this are never about justice. Just filled with bitterness and hate.

It's never too late to go after people like him

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Love the new sig PJ! No problem, you can keep all your conservatives right where they are. God knows no one else on Earth wants them around.

PJ you'll be glad to know that French(France) news have taken the story many weeks ago.

Justice should've been served long ago, but unfortunately, none of them were actually served justice, as they knew none of them would be convicted under a southern jury.

It's very easy to pity an old man, who looks a bit pathetic in his orange suit and handcuffs.

This item has been carried by the UK press and they posed the same questions: is it worth it now, is it truly justice.

At the end of the day the man is possibly guilty of an appaling hate crime: he has blood on his hands. There have been trials of people as old as this and older relating to crimes in the Second World War. Is there a difference?

Or are we tacitly admitting that as long as you can get away with it for long enough, you're no longer guilty?

In one thread you're saying we should be hard on crime and that sentencing should be seen as punishment. Yet here you advocate letting it slide ?

Im not advocating anything - I was just posting the article as it is a very "hot" article in my community since we arent very far away from that town.

Personally I will wait until the verdict. Apparently they have a very weak case. If they spent all this time and money on such an old case to throw an old man in prison - only to find that they didnt really have a decent case at all - it will be a waste, imo.

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Love the new sig PJ! No problem, you can keep all your conservatives right where they are. God knows no one else on Earth wants them around.

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Hehe glad you like it. Unfortunately i think it will be changing daily so dont get used to it. Oh and nobody has ever really wanted americans around - thats why they are in America and not their home country. ~;)

Former Klansman found guilty of manslaughter
Conviction coincides with 41st anniversary of civil rights killings

PHILADELPHIA, Mississippi (CNN) -- Forty-one years to the day three civil rights workers were ambushed and killed by a Ku Klux Klan mob, a jury found former Klansman Edgar Ray Killen guilty of all three counts of manslaughter Tuesday.

The "Freedom Summer" killings of James Chaney, 21, Andrew Goodman, 20, and Michael Schwerner, 24, galvanized the civil rights movement.

The jury of nine whites and three blacks reached the decision after several hours of deliberations.

Killen showed no emotion as the verdicts were read.

But as he was being escorted from the courthouse under heavy guard, the wheelchair-bound man took swipes at reporters' microphones and cameras. One of the reporters was black, as was a cameraman.

Killen will be sentenced by Circuit Court Judge Marcus Gordon at 2 p.m. ET, a court official said. He faces a maximum sentence of 20 years per count, and a minimum of one year per count, Mississippi Attorney General James Hood said.

From her Manhattan home Goodman's mother, Carolyn Goodman, 89, told CNN she had waited a long time for a guilty verdict, but it was "nothing to be happy about."

"I'm just overcome. ... But you know I had a feeling it was going to happen," she said.

"I just hope he's off the streets," she said of Killen. "I don't want anything more terrible than that. I don't want anything violent. I'm against capital punishment."

In his closing argument Monday, Neshoba County District Attorney Mark Duncan implored the 12 jurors to "hold the defendant responsible for what he did."

"What you do today when you go into that jury room is going to echo throughout the history of Neshoba County from now on," Duncan said. "You can either change the history that Edgar Ray Killen and the Klan wrote for us, or you can confirm it."

"Find him guilty of murder," Duncan said. "That's the verdict that the state of Mississippi asks you to return."

He told the jury to think of Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner -- three young men who had volunteered to help register blacks to vote in the summer of 1964, an act "so despised it cost them their lives."

Chaney was a black man from Mississippi.

Goodman and Schwerner were white New Yorkers who came to the South with hundreds of other civil rights activists.

"Those three boys and their families were robbed of all the things that Edgar Ray Killen has been able to enjoy for the last 41 years. And the cause of it, the main instigator of it was Edgar Ray Killen and no one else," the district attorney said.

"He was the man who led these murders. He is the man who set the plan in motion. He is the man who recruited the people to carry out the plan. He is the man who directed those men into what to do."

Now 80, the balding, bespectacled Killen -- a former preacher -- appeared to be sleeping during much of the closing remarks.

Hood, who led the case, said he wished "some of my predecessors would have done their duty" by bringing charges against Killen. Noting that it was "not good politics to bring this case up," he said, politics and time should not get in the way of justice.

Hood said testimony showed Killen possessed "venom" at the time of the killings and still does.

"That venom is sitting right there. It is seething behind those glasses," he said. "That coward wants to hide behind this thing and put pressure on you."
Burden of proof

Seeking to undermine the prosecution's case, defense attorney Mitch Moran said "nothing in the record shows Edgar was there" during the ambush and killings.

"The '60s was a terrible era in a lot of ways. We do not need to relive them, and we do need to go forward," Moran said. "What I'm asking you to do is to look at this evidence and hold the state to the burden of proving this case beyond a reasonable doubt."

Another defense attorney, James McIntyre, said, "The burden of proof on this case does not reflect any guilt whatsoever."

"Mr. Edgar Ray Killen had nothing to do with it," he said.

On June 21, 1964, Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner were on their way to investigate the burning of a black church when they were briefly taken into custody for speeding.

According to testimony, the Klan had burned the church to lure the three men back to Neshoba County.

After they were released from the county jail in Philadelphia, Mississippi, a KKK mob tailed their car, forced if off the road, and shot them to death. Their bodies were buried in an earthen dam -- in a trench dug in anticipation of the killings, according to testimony.

In a 1967 federal trial an all-white jury deadlocked 11-1 in favor of convicting Killen. The lone holdout said she could not vote to convict a preacher.

Seven other men were convicted of conspiring to violate the civil rights of the victims. None served more than six years in prison.

none of them were actually served justice, as they knew none of them would be convicted under a southern jury.
I was going to pull you on that one Kanamori , but your second post has done that already . Don't you just love the detailThe lone holdout said she could not vote to convict a preacher. :embarassed:

Though of course it could be argued whether or not the sentances of the others originally convicted amounted to "serving justice" .

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The lone holdout said she could not vote to convict a preacher.

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And this my friends is what is wrong with many parts of the rural US. A lack of clarity in thinking. :bow:

Why was this manslaughter rather than murder? The nature of the crime - the KKK tailing men released from a police station and burying them in pre-dug graves - makes it hard to see how it could not be murder.

Just out of curiousity, IA, how much time have you spent in the Rural USA? Even though I'm a Christian living in the rural South, I find the statement as troubling as you do. But do you really think the problem is limited to here?

If that's the case, why are so many of the Roman Catholic faithful, across the globe, and yes, even in enlightened Europe, saying victims should just shut up and leave the priests alone, even if they were molested? Roman Catholicism is NOT a particularly popular denomination in rural America (Catholics tend to live in cities & in suburbs).

The problem is not one of the rural south, it's one of human beings allowing somebody else to do their critical thinking for them.

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Originally Posted by Simon Appleton

Why was this manslaughter rather than murder? The nature of the crime - the KKK tailing men released from a police station and burying them in pre-dug graves - makes it hard to see how it could not be murder.

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My strong suspicion is burden of proof. You can go for manslaughter and murder1 at the same time, for the same crime in many jurisdictions over here: (Okay, we think he planned it out ahead of time, but if you think he shot the guy in blind rage, go ahead and give him that).

What I don't understand is why they didn't go after him on supporting charges: conspiracy to commit murder, kidnapping, interfering with an ongoing investegation, etc. I guess because at his age, any sentance the jury returns will be a death sentance. He won't live to see daylight again. Good.

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And this my friends is what is wrong with many parts of the rural US. A lack of clarity in thinking.

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And that my friends is what is wrong with British people. Complete arrogance compounded with a serious lack of knowledge on the subject matter. :bow:

Glad justice has been served.

Funny about the juror who couldn't convict a preacher. I agree with InsaneApache, clarity of thinking could be better in the rural south. Wasn't very long ago that a clansman was running for governor of Louisiana and had a real chance of winning.

Darn, I though Catholics lived just about anywhere? Sure are a lot of 'em 'round where I've lived. Baptists don't seem to realize that many of their fellow religious conservatives are Catholic. Pretty funny actually. I've been known to mention that when the Southern Baptists get started on school prayer. I've also mentioned that I'm not sure how happy they will be when some student or teachers organized prayers are offered to Allah or Buddha either. And some wiseacre is going to start a Druid chant...you just know it.

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Just out of curiousity, IA, how much time have you spent in the Rural USA?

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None.

However my step-Mother is from the 'deep' south, and I have many first hand accounts of the enlightened attitude to 'niggers' there.

I'll mail her and ask her to send some memoirs if that would please.

Just one of the joys of the internet. To root out and dispel ignorance wherever it is found.

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And that my friends is what is wrong with British people. Complete arrogance compounded with a serious lack of knowledge on the subject matter.

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I rest my case :bow:

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

And that my friends is what is wrong with British people. Complete arrogance compounded with a serious lack of knowledge on the subject matter. :bow:

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Actually, most British folks I know are at least of average intelligence and have fairly good knowledge bases.

Having said that, so are most rural Americans I know.

And Panzer, for the record:

It's bad form to bow as if you have just said something profound or gracious when what you have actually done is make a sweeping (not to mention terribly wrong) generalization about an entire nation of people.

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

None.

However my step-Mother is from the 'deep' south, and I have many first hand accounts of the enlightened attitude to 'niggers' there.

I'll mail her and ask her to send some memoirs if that would please.

Just one of the joys of the internet. To root out and dispel ignorance wherever it is found.

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Two things:
1) I don't know if that word means something in the UK other than what it means here, but it's incredibly offensive. Not because it's a racial slur, because it's not, or at least it didnt' start that way. It refers to a piece of property, and that's why black people hate white people using it so badly. There's no equivalent.

2) If you really believe that the rural South is the only place in the Western world where that kind of benighted ignorance exists, and you're not just trying to bait, I pity you.

what you have actually done is make a sweeping (not to mention terribly wrong) generalization about an entire nation of people.
And it wasn't even about Arabs or Muslims this time ~D ~D ~D

Come on Goofball, youve done the exact same thing - Replicating someones statement to illistrate how idiotic it is. Any British person with any sense can see that. Maybe a wink would have been better than a bow though.

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I don't know if that word means something in the UK other than what it means here, but it's incredibly offensive. Not because it's a racial slur, because it's not, or at least it didnt' start that way. It refers to a piece of property, and that's why black people hate white people using it so badly.

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Oh dear God...it is offensive precisely because of the negative emotions the word evokes. (It's origin is from the Latin Negro, meaning black. ie Montenegro)

If it also means a piece of chattle...then that makes it even more offensive imho.

Look I aint going to tell you guys how to run your country,( I'm sure you would love me if I did). There is a problem that needs addressing, but hey, it's your gig. I'm just an observer and we got enough problems in blighty

I'm from the U.K., currently in the U.S. and I have to say that the British public in general is incredibly ill-informed about the U.S.

They certainly do hold some strong opinions about the place though.

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Originally Posted by PanzerJager

Come on Goofball, youve done the exact same thing - Replicating someones statement to illistrate how idiotic it is. Any British person with any sense can see that. Maybe a wink would have been better than a bow though.

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Yes, I have modified peoples' own statements to show them the sillyness in what they just said, but that is not really what you did.

While IA's statement was certainly bordering on the edge of good manners and reasonableness, there was one important word he used in it to keep it from being a massive, sweeping insult: "many." By using that word, he at least kept his statement from attributing the traits of a few to the traits of all rural Americans.

Your statement, however, implied that all British people are arrogant and ignorant.

Very big difference.

So no, I have not done "the exact same thing."

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Originally Posted by InsaneApache

Oh dear God...it is offensive precisely because of the negative emotions the word evokes. (It's origin is from the Latin Negro, meaning black. ie Montenegro)

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I garuntee you that as a white man, you come down to the south and say that to a black man, you won't live more than 3 seconds. My money is on 2 seconds, but hey i'll give you another second if you can take many bullets.

And whats this about the south not being educated? :furious3:

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garuntee you that as a white man, you come down to the south and say that to a black man, you won't live more than 3 seconds

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Thankyou for making my point.

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And whats this about the south not being educated?

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well as a northerner ...oops sry wrong country :embarassed:

Lets just say this.......

The USA isnt as free as it likes to think it is.

*time for a beer*

Let's get real here. I've been in the south for quite awhile, and I've heard the term used plenty, primarily by the older generations. It was a bit less of a fighting term a few years back but it still wasn't used in any polite fashion.

The context IA used it is was quite appropriate as I have no doubt he was quoting her. Yes, they really do say it like that. (Folks down here don't like to admit that they or at least their parents/grandparents use the expression alot behind their backs...shhhhhh...secret's out.) I could tell you some amusing stories with the word that would explain both the changes in mindset and how the older generation still regarded blacks not all that long ago. The good news is that it is changing.

The unfortunate thing is that now it is not uncommon for negroes to refer to each other with the term. And it seems to be "OK" for them to do so, while it is a major offense for anyone else to, no matter whether it is in jest, etc. An odd double standard. Reminds me of a black activist actually stating "black people couldn't be rascist because they are black." :jawdrop:

What you might also hear used as a substitute is "boy," which I find even more insulting.

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The USA isnt as free as it likes to think it is.

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What in the hell are you talking about? You cant just make a statement like that after making such accusations about the South and then go get a beer.

The South of 2005 is a very different place than apparently the british school system would have you think. Or maybe its just you who holds strange views about the South.

I live here and Ive got that strange in-ter-net thingy, as do most people. I dont drive a pick up - most people dont. My community has a black mayor - most southern communities do these days. "Nigger" is a word of affection used by many black people and some whites. Theres no more segregation than in any other community here and theres certainly no freedom denied anyone.

If youre getting all your information from your grandmother, then maybe you should do a bit more research before speaking out with supposed authority on the subject, especially since youve never been here.