Legionary Eagle questions

I started the civil war before the Marian Reforms and so I never got the First Cohort mentioned in Froggbeastegg's excellent guide from the Senate. I would imagine that neither the Scipii or the Brutii got them either. Is this correct?

Also, is there any difference between the First Cohort offered as a reward by the Senate and the Legionary First Cohort I'm able to train in Rome?

If there is, can the Legionary First Cohort lose the eagle? (If it can I plan on losing a LFC in battle and then capturing it with a good general to let him gain the "Eagle Taker" trait)

Thanks in advance.

1. you cant get the eagle anymore, nor can the brutii and scipii
2. you cant train the first cohorts anywhere (exept if you mod the game)
3. i thought that you must loose the eagle but win the battle to get the eagle taker trait

First Cohorts can be trained in the city of Rome after the Marian reforms have happened.

From memory, you can train them in Rome, post Marius.

Okay, now I'm confused:

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Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1

2. you cant train the first cohorts anywhere (exept if you mod the game)

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Originally Posted by dgb

From memory, you can train them in Rome, post Marius.

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Which is it?
I can train Legionary First Cohorts in Rome after the reforms but according to Frogbeastegg's guide they are not the same as First Cohorts. ~:confused:

I think FrogBeastEgg has missed updating her guide post patch 1.2, which was when I think it became possible to produce them.

Either way, I think they are the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Conqueror

First Cohorts can be trained in the city of Rome after the Marian reforms have happened.

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sorry forgot that in patch 1.2 they can be trained in rome (i made them trainable everywhere)

Thank you all.

So presumably I can put the Legionary First Cohort into battle, have it massacred and then retrieve the eagle with my general, thus gaining him the "Eagle Taker" trait?

(A horrible exploit I know, but fun non the less)

Why you want to waste such a rare and valuable unit like that is beyond me.

Though, after taking Rome... I guess it's justifiable.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

Why you want to waste such a rare and valuable unit like that is beyond me.

Though, after taking Rome... I guess it's justifiable.

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I know it's a waste but I only have eight or nine provinces to go before I finish the campaign and I'd like to know what the eagle trait does. ~:)

Eagle Taker only applies to non-romans I think, all you can get as Romans is regained eagle.

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Originally Posted by dgb

Eagle Taker only applies to non-romans I think, all you can get as Romans is regained eagle.

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Crap! ~;)

The first cohort thing was changed in the 1.2 patch. A first cohort is a cohort with an eagle; that's always been the case, and that's how it worked in history. Originally you could only get them as rewards from the senate, but as of 1.2 you can train them in the city of Rome as long as it has the necessary buildings to produce the regular legionary unit of the same type.

I missed this alteration in my main update for that section of the guide, and I've not managed to get chance to edit it to the new, correct information. Heh; I've not had chance to do a thing with the guide in over a month. It's still stuck midway through its 1.2 update. I do have hope that I'll be able to do something on Friday, when I anticipate getting a day off from this incredibly lousy course I'm on. Grumble, grumble: I left university and ended up at what feels like nursery school. Grumble. So much time wasted!

Sorry for the confusion.

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Originally Posted by Tue

Crap! ~;)

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eagle taker gives extra command ability
eage retaker gives xtra popularity

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Originally Posted by Emperor Umeu 1

eage retaker gives xtra popularity

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So "eagle retaker" is an actual trait. Retaker? ~;)

Why waste the unit for some stupid trait?

I'd willingly sack 2-3 of my family members to get a first cohort.

Note that there is the early legion cohort and then legion cohort.

Both belong in the major exotic reward troop type and can be built in Rome in patch 1.2 with appropriate buildings.

They are essentially a second general, giving morale bonuses and can rally troops not to mention being a tough melee unit with 50% extra size.

if you capture an eagle your general will get a trait for it, one of my generals has captured a few and is now titled "Casius of the Eagles". Losing one is very bad for a general, giving them the disgraced trait. -2 morale/-4 influence(?), getting worse for each eagle lost. You can also recapture an eagle (by retaking the city where the eagle went to), gaining you a redeemer(?) trait. which doesn't entirely wipe out the effects if you've also lost an eagle previously (which seems ok).

i think for the first eagle lost, the senate gives you a mission to recapture it.

all this is good however:
- every time you lose one eagle carrying unit the general gets a disgraced trait. having a single unit of cohorts destroyed therefore means the general now has -2 morale which seems a little harsh for an otherwise star-performing general. modding the proability of the trait can fix this.
- also there's no visibility other than the initial message of where an eagle has gone to. leaving the player to keep track of where to go when attempting to recapture one.

hth

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Originally Posted by katank

Why waste the unit for some stupid trait?

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To see what it does and possibly get a good trait, but since Emperor Umeu 1 explained that taking the eagle back only gives popularity it's hardly worth it.

If, on the other hand, re-capturing the eagle for the glory of Rome had other benefits I'd do it.

Even if you get the eagle taker trait and it gives a command star, so what?

This is not MTW where command stars were hard to gain. Just fight out a couple of battles and chase down all the routers and you have a 10* in no time.

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Originally Posted by katank

Even if you get the eagle taker trait and it gives a command star, so what?

This is not MTW where command stars were hard to gain. Just fight out a couple of battles and chase down all the routers and you have a 10* in no time.

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Because I think it would be fun, that's all.
Can't compare it to MTW - never played that.

I'd get the MTW battlepack then, it's probably 15 Euros(rough conversion from $20 USD). Both MTW and VI.

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Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

I'd get the MTW battlepack then, it's probably 15 Euros(rough conversion from $20 USD). Both MTW and VI.

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I could but MTW never piqued my interest. Something to do with the timeframe, I guess, but thank you. ~:)

Rest assured that MTW+VI is a far better tactical challenge.

The strategy part is more or less focus upon cranking out a navy and have long unbroken chains of ships which result in massive, ridiculous amonts of trade income.

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Originally Posted by katank

Rest assured that MTW+VI is a far better tactical challenge.

The strategy part is more or less focus upon cranking out a navy and have long unbroken chains of ships which result in massive, ridiculous amonts of trade income.

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Then I guess it's not for me. I don't really care about the battles - I mostly (95 out 100 times) autoresolve. I like the strategy part which is why I stopped playing Shogun... ~:)