Consultation: What research has been done on the Marian Reforms?

Yes, yes there are countless threads on this topic already, but they've never answered the technical questions that every modder making a total conversion mod needs to know.

As we all know, 1.2 criteria are:
a) Roman faction must built an Imperial palace in Italy province
b) Post 220BC
c) 'Random' element

1) Eliminating the Marian Reforms event
Easiest way to do this is to stop an imperial palace being built in Italy, specifically by getting rid of the thing that marks it as Italy. Is this just the hidden resource or is it based on settlement/region names or RGB values?

Does the italy hidden resource have to exist somewhere or can it be ditched completely?

On a similar theme, what marks Rome as Rome for the purpose of victory conditions? Hidden resource, settlement name, province name or RGB value?

2) Altering the Marian Reforms
Once we determine the above, we can obviously move the physical location that the marian reforms can be launched from, but what about the timing element? Is the 220BC based on turns or on the date? If you have a starting date of 320BC, or are using 4 turns, will they become available in 270BC or do they stay fixed in 220BC?

If the italy resource is not declared, the game will crash when you reach the Reforms.

Rome is considered Rome on the basis of its internal name. A city named Rome must exist. However, its external name can be changed in text\imperial_campaign_region_and_settlement_names.txt.

The Marian reforms occur a minimum of 100 turns after the start date.

All these have been established by others; I can provide links if you want them.

-Simetrical

If you just get rid of all the Marian reform units or make them not to require the reform, isn't that the same as eliminating the reform, as it would only give you a message and nothing else?


One question though: does the marian reform only affect Romans? Can it be used to trigger other cultures' unit change as well?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wlesmana

If you just get rid of all the Marian reform units or make them not to require the reform, isn't that the same as eliminating the reform, as it would only give you a message and nothing else?


One question though: does the marian reform only affect Romans? Can it be used to trigger other cultures' unit change as well?

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The non-Roman factions (except the Britons and, possibly, Rebels) gain upgraded generals' bodyguards after the reforms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wlesmana

One question though: does the marian reform only affect Romans? Can it be used to trigger other cultures' unit change as well?

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The "marian_reform" prerequisite works for all cultures.

-Simetrical

I posted this in the wrong thread:

Can the marian reform trigger a change of captain/general MODEL and not just the bodyguards?

Not to anyone's knowledge, no.

-Simetrical

From your posts here, it appears that this particular event in the game is more or less hard coded.Real pity as I was trying to is to modify campaign that would start (around 70 BC) with post- marian reform’s units already in place and ready to be recruited.Changing /deleting entires in descr_strat, export_descr_buildings and descr_rebel_factions didn’t help –neither did getting rid of Senate as faction (CTD after few turns) ,unless of course there are other files that need to be modified.

That shouldn't be a problem, you need to go to your export_descr_buildings file and remove the pre-Marian units, and then remove the marian_reforms conditional from the recruit lines of the post-Marian units.
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I tried that Richard and still get CTD without error message

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Epistolary Richard

That shouldn't be a problem, you need to go to your export_descr_buildings file and remove the pre-Marian units, and then remove the marian_reforms conditional from the recruit lines of the post-Marian units.
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I have been experimenting without much luck and still get the same CTD after 4th/5th turn.I have deleted all references to reforms in export_descr_buildings
left and later deleted all pre-marian units and did the same with descr_model_battle and export_descr_unit.Obviously CTD might not be unit related but I have not altered anything else

After the fourth or fifth turn? Sounds like either the AI is trying to build a unit that isn't properly defined or a rebel unit is spawning. I would start again and just take the pre-marian reform units out of edh and take it step by step.

Roman faction it is around 4-5th turn (when icon gets to Rebels on year turn) just like you said.Playing Seleucid I got CTD just as soon as one of generals gets promoted.

BTW what I forgot to mentioned earlier is that I'm doing all that alterations to RTR 5.4.1 files (purely personal use of course) not "vanila" 1.2

I'm really not familiar with RTR, Simetrical worked on it though. Maybe he can shed some light on it.

In principle, the modifications should work for any mod's files.

-Simetrical

I have reinstalled "vanilla" 1.2 and edited all files as previously - got rid of early units and reforms,Senate and gave my faction Rome (playing Brutii).This time I didn't not delete anything in descr_model_battle.Results : no crashes, normal recruting of post marian units.I have already been attacked by Scipii but after several turns, they are down to two settlements.By accident I pressed "attack" button on one of Julii settlements and strange message appeared :

https://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7594/image24tg.jpg

well,Senate is no longer and I hold Rome.There is no way to gain popular support and no way of cancelling allience treaties with Julii...I will carry one playing just to see what might happen next ~:)

I have given up on that after many,many turns.There is no way to get rid of Julii - I was hoping Julii would attack my faction but they didn't.I suppose only deleting Julii along with senate might do the trick

If you chaps don't mind I'll pose another question on the Marian reforms.

Can NON-ROMAN units be affected by it? Like if the Marian reforms occur and I add a pre-requisite to a Briton or Carthaginian unit will they be affected by it? (game's not installed right now so I have no way of checking).

Thanks!

Yes, as Simetrical mentions above, the marian_reform conditional can be added to any entry for any faction in export_descr_buildings (certainly troop recruitment, probably building construction and bonuses as well).