Consultation: Advice on starting a modification project

As part of our ongoing project to improve the modding forums, now that RTW modding is nearly a year old we'd like to update the Starting a modification thread on the Forge with all the lessons that members of the community have learned both from successes and failures. While obviously there are many cautionary tales to tell, our objective is to educate and better prepare budding mod makers - not disencourage them from getting involved in the modding community altogether.

So, to those members with long experience in mod projects, both solo efforts and in teams, and also to those who have just started, what advice do you think should be in there?

It needs to include that if you don't have any modding skills, then get some, and start working on your mod, because finding a team that will make the entire for you is not likely.

If your project has started, but you still need a team, then post your work, as you do it, which will show people that you are serious about the project, and that it is not going to die after one or two weeks of labour.

More advice later... ~;)

My advice: "If you want it done the way you want it, you have to do it yourself".

I'm incredibly disappointed with Battle for Middle-earth. When I heard there are LOTR mods for RTW I was overjoyed, for a short while, then I found out none of them are based on the movies. LOTR mods based on the books are nice but I'd really like to see the soldiers from the movie in action in RTW. But none even dared to model them (or just thought it wasn't worth it).

I couldn't mod. I didn't have any of the skills except skinning and my first try to skin a Sarmatian horseman into a Gondor unit was a disaster. So I started to learn 3DSMax, as daunting a task that sounds, for someone with zero experience in 3D modeling.

So I've been making some LOTR movie units since May. I'm no expert yet, but I'm learning and having lots of fun.
(In case anyone's interested, my progress is documented here, at SCC forum).

Wow wlesmana I really like those Gondor infantry and I'm sure wlesmana will say that there are quite a few people on these forums who would be willing to help new modellers. Well here's my story, I hope people can extract some useful information out of it. I will write my actual guide to starting later, this is just my story.

I started out with some big ideas, probably ones which I couldn't fufill because of time and learning all the aspects of modding. I had been modelling for a couple of years with MAX and had photoshop but only knew the basic skills to texture editing. I always wanted to make my own mod because I like to organize the team and to plan out what we can all do together but at the same time I like to be relaxed and make sure the whole team is having fun. That would be my main piece of advice to people, modding should be fun and rewarding. It is not easy but you get a good sense of achievment once you see your own work in game or see your own dreams realised.
Anyway after doing some practice skinning to recap the basic skills I made a few units and put them in game. It was really fun at first because I was just making new weapons, new costumes and stuff but I wanted to start a mod so as "smart" modders do I read the guide for starting a mod. I went for a culture and period that was interesting for me, the only problem being no-one else was interested in it. I started making a west african medieval mod with the rise and fall of the great Mali empire, it fitted the game well because Mali was split into three factions so could be made the senate, and eventually civil war started, again fitting the Vanilla timeline quite well. I made some units and people were fairly impressed (here are a few examples)

http://img72.exs.cx/img72/8972/maliarchersscreen.jpg
http://img26.exs.cx/img26/640/malispearmencut.jpg
http://img108.exs.cx/img108/1825/ara...enfight6ab.png

but I hadn't set it out well and people could see no future in it.
Eventually it died after about a month but it was only my labour lost and I had some fun and most of all experience. Then I decided I would a help a different mod and made a thread saying I was a modeller looking for a project to work on, I'm quite a fan of the underdog so wanted a mod struglling for a modeller but one which already had a team assembled. Pike and Musket Total War seemed to fit the criterea so I carried on practicing and as you can see improved slightly (well at least in texturing) ;)

http://img117.exs.cx/img117/7687/eng...reivers1to.png
http://img213.exs.cx/img213/6176/kernspear4oz.png

Then I got an interesting offer which was a Zulu mod if I helped out with the WASP mod. I did a few units for the WASP mod which again I would tell new modders to have a go with other mods even if you don't want to be a permanent member of the team, it can give you lots of experience. Just tell them you want to do some part time work for them and they should accept.
(here is a yet unpublished screenshot)

https://img351.imageshack.us/img351/...muskets7di.png

Well so then I began work on the Zulu mod which was great, it got enough interest to start and I was on my way to being a better modder. But I didn't stop learning there, I am still constantly learning and that is the message I am trying to get across. Your work will improve with time even if it takes much effort and a lot of time, even if you can't make the mod you want right away persevere, get experience and people will recognise your work and hopefully admire it. ~:cheers:

Regards

Sundjata Keita

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prince Laridus Konivaich

If your project has started, but you still need a team, then post your work, as you do it, which will show people that you are serious about the project, and that it is not going to die after one or two weeks of labour.

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This is good advice; with the TFT mod, I set a very modest, easily attainable goal for v1.0. It was pretty much a beta test to see if the idea would work, and if there was interest in the community. My vision for v2.0 was much more ambitious, but 1) I knew I would need help and 2) I didn't want to build something that nobody would be interested in.

So I spent about two or three weeks doing the actual coding and then released what I had. Once it was out, that was enough to attract additional team members, some of whom have carried the entire load (while I disappeared for a couple months) and they released a very enjoyable v1.5. The multiple releases have also helped garner ideas/comment/criticism from the community which has been extremely valuable. And having gotten this far, we have a pretty good idea of what we can and cannot do, and plan accordingly for v2.0 and the other projects we are pursuing.

So to summarize: set realistic, attainable goals; release as you go to stimulate community interest.

Already some pretty wise words on here....

1) As has been stated DO NOT try and start a mod unless you are able to do SOMETHING to make the mod a reality. I certainly wouldn't work for a mod run by guys who couldn't be bothered to learn ANY modding skills.

2) Research. IF you are planning a mod, do the research. Gather your pics and data and reference artwork. IF the mod is story or fictional, work up some concept art and ideas.

3) PLAN. Plane your mod well. Work out your factions, units and so forth. There is a limit to the number of units you can have, and a degree of planning is needed to make sure there is room for what you want.

4) Don't EXPECT to get any help or support. Modding skills are in short supply, and there are quite a few mods out there fighting for the resource. IF you get an offer of help, grab it and thank the gods.... but don't count on it. Expect to finish the mod unaided, and you won't be disappointed. The chances of getting help are directly linked to your own skill. Make nice models and pretty textures, and the screenshots will get attention.

5) BE REALISTIC! Your mod will have to work within the confines of the RTW game engine. Don't forget this. Plan things that cannot be done by all means...but think how you ARE going to make it happen. Do not expect your mod to attract support if you promise the impossible and can't answer questions about HOW you are going to do it. IF you have a crazy idea....text it before you announce it, so you can PROVE it is possible.

And thats about it....unless you want to include

"DO NOT post on the forum asking how to model in 3DS Max" ~;)

Also, look around to see if the mod that you want to make is already being made by somebody else, or even by a team. If it is, consider collaborating with the other person, or joining the mod team.

I think this leads into an interesting area, that of recruitment. Now more than ever, joining (even part-time) or collaborating with a mod team is just as attractive as starting your own mod. Even more so, perhaps, because an established team has a far greater chance of completing their mod than a relatively new modder just starting his own. You can learn a great deal from the more experienced members and you make contacts that will help you in the future.

So perhaps I could expand the question to ask you guys your opinion on recruitment, and what advice you'd give to a person who was interested in joining a mod team?

I think we can probably assume that a competent modeller will find a happy home in every single mod team under the sun, so let's take the case of someone without those specialised skills, so:

What are the kind of people that you're looking?
What kind of experience would you like them to have had?
How do you like to be approached?
To what extent do they need to have all the necessary skills before they join
compared to serving a sort of 'apprenticeship' within the team?
What else would help in your recruitment efforts? Is there anything the community or the boards could be doing to aid you in finding the right people?

I suppose many of the bigger mod teams are all just looking for people with skills and of course so am I but pretty much anyone, if they ask nicely, can become part of my team. Let me re-iterate that joining a mod team without any specialised skills is meant to be a learning project and help the determined people develop skills. Some people who are very interested in my mod know they can't really help and would rarther help beta test or do small jobs such as compiling the information. At one stage there was a lot of research to be done and I got a lot of help from someone who joined the team. They've now run off but they have been a big help anyway for the time they stayed.
The people I like to have on the team are friendly, hard-working and co-operative. I don't mind if they don't have any skills but if they want to learn I am always happy to give them a hand. If they do have special skills, I really don't care how they greet me, I just thank God. ~;) All the people that join however are either given a small test job to see their skill level if it is not already apparent or a kind of apprenticeship where they start work on the interfaces for example or faction symbols, just to see how they cope. You can't fail and I don't judge you its mainly to help you learn and show you are improving ~:)
As for other recruitment techniques, well I hope this thread will show people there is no big commitment and people should join up for a short while and volunteer to do some work just to keep learning. Are there other ways to do it? I always let people join up if they want to, maybee we could have a list of mods somewhere looking for recruits and people who want to do some part time work can just look at the list, pick a mod that sounds good and join up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bwian

3) PLAN. Plane your mod well. Work out your factions, units and so forth. There is a limit to the number of units you can have, and a degree of planning is needed to make sure there is room for what you want.

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Good point. Also it's worth making a work plan to estimate how long you'll spend on the project. I think a lot of people underestimate just how much work is involved. For example, it's worth working out, how many units you produce a week divided by the total number you'll need for the mod (very simplified). Are you still going to be motivated by your project in 10 months time?

Added advice:

If you have never modded RTW before (other games' mod doesn't count), then START SMALL.


It's easy to turn away potential recruit by reading a "total conversion! all new units and graphics, animations and sounds!", then going to the forum and saw the team leader asking how to create new units. A modeler will just get annoyed if you have no idea what can and cannot be done by the engine.

If you're still learning, start small. Baby steps are good.

Yea, or at least learn as much you can about skinning, modeling etc, even if you can't or dont have the time to do it (like me :p), that way, you understand EVERYTHING your team tells you, a mod leader should be on top at all times...