Shogun Total War 2

Well, here it is, Shogun Total War 2, the next natural step in the evolution of this great game! This new version implements several quantum leaps in both the realistic depiction of battles and the depth, texture and balance of gameplay.

But before going any further, I would like to offer my sincerent thanks to greats such as TosaInu, Puzz3D, EradoSan, Terezawa, and many others (you know who you are), without whose advice, encouragement, and most of all steadfast advocacy of the modding cause, none of this would have been remotely possible.

I would also like to separately thank the administrators of this great fansite, who have provided for me this space on their forum to host STW2 and its documentation.

Though STW2 was created simply using the tools of modification provided standard with WE/MI, it is no mere mod, but a true evolution of the game. So, to find out more, read on. At the bottom of this thread you will find instructions on installing it onto your computer.

[I would like at this point to apologize for having to put so much material all in one thread. I would have put it all in different threads for more readable organization, but the moderators likely would have become angry with me.]

[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 05-09-2002).]

Major Differences to look out for --

- STW2 was designed to be played with 120-man units. It is however compatible with 60-man units if your computer can't handle more.

- Units now move in different ways. Spears will be somewhat unwieldy and harder to maneuver (especially the unruly peasant levies), while most others have stayed basically the same.

- Spears are now considerably more important. Though properly loaded with weaknesses, spears are now nearly a necessity in any balanced army.

- Heavy Cavalry is no longer highly surviveable. These buggers are now rather more offensive. Though far from paper kites you will notice that they now fall in melee somewhat quicker.

- The rate of attrition in melee has been tamped way down to more realistic levels. You will immediately notice that bodies are not flying every which way at the rate of 500 per second when your units duke it out in hand to hand. This also means that in order for units to be useful, they need not necessarily "beat" the enemy, only hold a strong line against them while other units win the battle. [Defense raised across the board by 7, for those of you who know what that means.]

- To compensate for a lower rate of attrition, and to add some realism as to the need for army cohesion and coordination, morale has been considerably dropped. This means that units will usually rout with more men left than before, and you notice that you will have to take careful consideration for lone flank and rear raids. [Morale lowered across the board by 5, for those of you who know what that means.]

- Guns have longer range, and are no longer uber-strong. You will notice that both Arquebuses and Muskets now have a range 20% greater than Archers. You will also notice that they are less devastatingly deadly and reload quite a bit more slowly (much more realistic for this era). They are definitely still the best missle units in the game, but they no longer have the ability to totally dominate. Archers also have had their destructive slightly reduced, to keep in line with the general reduction in the rate of attrition.

- In general, be prepared for greater specialization in unit purposes. Spears/Nags to hold the center, WM/Nods/Cav to work around the flanks and rear, etc. There is of course plenty of room for effective deviations from this "standard" army plan, but this is now the, historical and realistic, "orthodox" army around which the stats are envisioned.

[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 05-09-2002).]

The troop types of STW2:

[Note: For various reasons BN and KN have been excluded from this version of the game. As people generally did not use these units, especially online, it is not in my opinion a great loss. People are free to work out a way to implement them for themselves, and if anyone has any good suggestions I'd be glad to hear them. There are also no Mongol Units at this time.]


YA - 120
YS - 80
SA - 80
NI - 80
ND - 60
WM - 60
CA - 60
YC - 60
HC - 60
AQ - 80
MK - 60
NC - 40


Yari Ashigaru -- Minimally trained, poorly equipped peasant conscripts. They are a pain to maneuver, have a tendency to rout, and on top of all that they suck at fighting.. but at 100 koku a pop you get what you pay for. They are the only troop type in the game with 120 men per unit, and this mass, plus a bristling front of long spears, will usually hold an enemy in place long enough for other units to win the battle. These units can be used to great effect in conjunction with a balanced army, but don't bet on them getting anything done on their own.

Yari Samurai - Trained pikemen, both of Samurai and Ashigaru origin. Equipped with a long spear and decent armor, these troops have been drilled enough to where they can maneuver more or less as well as their clumsy weapons will permit. These will be the backbone of most well-equipped armies, forming a solid anchor for other forces. As long as they are maneuvered wisely and good order prevails in their ranks, they will present a fearsome front to give the bravest warrior second thoughts.

Samurai Archers - Samurai and Ashigaru skirmishers. Quick on their feet, these troops will use their bows to rain volley after volley of arrows into the enemy ranks. Their effect upon the enemy will largely depend on the quality of his armor -- peasant levies and light infantry had best beware, but Heavy Infantry and Cavalry will mostly shake off the fire. It is generally advisable to keep them and their light armor out of melee, but if necessary they can charge in with their katanas and other small weapons.

Naginata Infantry - Heavy infantry. Heavily armored and equipped with Naginata, or short polearms, these troops have the staying power of spearmen without the dependence on a rigid formation. Using their Naginata to decent offensive effect, these troops are some of the most versatile that money can buy, and on top of that, they are largely invulnerable to archery. Though maneuvering them is more or less a cinch, they are quite slow, thus limiting their usefulness. They are also rather pricey.

No-Dachi Samurai - Elite samurai footsoldiers, equipped with large swords. These troops charge. Fearsomely. However, their light armor and big clumsy swords put them at a disadvantage against anything that stands its ground. If you are wise, you will use these troops to deliver the coup-de-grace against an engaged or unprepared enemy, and keep them out of hairy, pitched melees.

Warrior Monks - Elite religious wackos. Clad in little to no armor, an expertly wielded Naginata and impressive speed is these troops only means of survival. They can deliver a charge nigh-on as fearsome as No-Dachis, and have the staying power to stand in a pitched melee. They are, however, rather misused as grunts, and should shy away from engaging spears and heavy infantry frontally. Heavy Naginata Infantry may even kick their ass. These troops also need beware of archery, as the have practically no protection.

Cavalry Archers - Mounted Samurai with bows. Speedy and nimble, these troops offer mobile firepower. Though their fire is not as accurate as that of foot archers and they are larger and thus easier to hit, they have heavier armor and better melee weapons. In general they are inferior for pure missle purposes and should be used for their obnoxious harrassing capabilities.

Yari Cavalry - Speedy cavalry armed with long spears. Capable of delivering an effective charge to any foe, these speedy troops also work wonders against other mounted forces. Their lack of heavy armor or proper training dictates that they should avoid pitched melee against most foot opponents.

Heavy Cavalry - Elite heavily armored cavalry. Armed with a variety of swords and short lances, the mere sound of their thundering charge will chasten the heart of the most defiant enemy. Their only natural predators are pikemen and Yari Cavalry. They had best also watch out for guns. Like all cavalry, they are pricey and not too surviveable, so it is advisable to hold them out for the right moment, instead of sacrificing these valuable samurai carelessly, even in victory.

Arquebusiers - Gunners, usually coverted veteran Ashigaru spearmen. These troops are armed with primitive matchlocks from Europe. Though their armor penetration is unequalled by earlier weapons and they enjoy a longer range than bows, these are quite inaccurate and very slow to reload. Always a good idea to back them up with some sort of pikemen.

Musketeers - Gunners armed with more advanced matchlocks. These more advanced guns are more accurate and reload 25% faster, making the troops that wield them rightfully the most feared skirmishers of their day.

Naginata Cavalry - Elite light cavalry. With light armor, bows, swords and polearms, what these troops lack in equipment they make up for in speed and skill. The fastest cavalrymen of their day, they can reconnoiter the enemy, loose a few accurate arrows, and gallop back. They can also perform quite well in melee if needed to, though their small numbers make them an inefficient choice for this purpose alone. [Designer's note: well, what did you want me to do?? With the other changes made to cavalry NC were not only out of a historical niche but also out of a gameplay niche. This was the best I could do.. I assume they would be useful but I haven't tested it enough.]

[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 05-09-2002).]

Detailed notes for modders--

To fully understand where these stats are coming from it may help to haul out a copy of the old Real Deal Mod and look at it. That is the basis of these new stats, though several important changes have been made.

The main changes were adding 7 to defense and subtracting 5 from morale, across the board. This slows down melee and makes army cohesion considerably more imporant, providing many, many more different ways to win than with the old system.

With the new capability to mod unit sizes, so wonderfully delivered through the steadfast advocacy of greats such as TosaInu and EradoSan, have been used to vary unit sizes for added realism and texture. YariAsh now have the added advantage of being the largest units with 120 men. More middle of the line units have 80 men, such as YS and SA. Elite units, which includes all cavalry, and elite light infantry such as Nods and Monkies, have only 60 men per unit.

The closer spacing of spear units, the larger spacing of elite light infantry types, the unwieldiness of spears, the defensive emphasis of YA, the lower surviveability of HC, the more balanced depiction of Nag Infantry, all of these changes are from the Real Deal Mod.

One interesting further change is a building upon the unwieldiness of spears. Now not only is their pivoting speed tamped down, their turning speeds are also lower, as low as 3 with YA. Walking and running speeds have also been taken down to simulate the emphasis on keeping order while on the move.. in other words, lack of armor will no longer make these troops move fast. Interestingly this means that spears will, realistically, probably be unable to chase down archers, though this is okay as archers are somewhat less deadly to begin with. The charging speeds, however, which also happen to be the speed at which they run away, have, of course, been left at same values.

Charging speeds for all units are now higher than running speeds. This generally helps them get away from an enemy if they rout from melee.

SA melee power has been reduced somewhat to reflect their mixed make-up of Samurai and Ashigaru. This also helps balance their continued fire-effectiveness in the face of slower melee attrition rates. SA are still, however, viable in melee, and are great for flanking and such things. They do die fast tho.

Power of guns set at 3.0, range, including for Arqs, raised to 6000, reload for Musks 30, for Arqus 40. This is all IMO quite realistic, and puts guns more in their proper historical place-- feared and effective but not.. not.. well whatever the hell they were in the original version of the game and v1.02b.

Cavalry charge values are now rather high. With slower melee attrition rates, they will now be more dependent on these destructive charges.

For those of you who remember how badly Nods were emasculated in the Real Deal Mod, rejoice for I have repented. Who cares if "No-Dachi" were practically never used historically and would have severe weaknesses on the battlefield? Who's saying they don't have other sword types, too? They are now properly useful once more, though they had best, as all light units, shy from getting caught in slugfests with rank and file grunts.

Archery accuracy raised by .1 for both foot and mounted, power lowered to .4. Don't expect some profound explanation.. originally power was simply lowered to .3, and after a good deal of observation and play I decided this was too low. I also noticed that my archers were having trouble landing things on target. So I set things where they are, played with it, decided it had the right feel, as far as balance and my perception of history, so I went with. Though I like very much the way it is now, this is not an alteration I would fight for until death, for sure.

Naginata Cav -- well, they were kind of a BS unit anyway. And when HC were made more offensively inclined, there was simply no room left for them in the gameplay either. After watching Heaven and Earth I was inspired, and turned them into what you will now see, a small, elite unit of fast, bow-packing cavalry. I will be wanting feedback on this, all suggestions are welcome.

There are no Kensai or BN in the current version. I would not cry if there was never such a thing as a Kensai or BN. But they could reasonably be implemented, so if anyone has any suggestions please voice them. I just haven't been inspired to put in the work yet.

Now, finally, the info you've all REALLY been wanting.

- HOW TO INSTALL STW2 ON YOUR COMPUTER -


If you have some computer knowledge--

1 : Open your Shogun Total War folder and look for two files -- TroopStats.txt and Projectiles.txt

2 : Back these files up (copy them somewhere for safe keeping).

3 : Open TroopStats.txt in NotePad or something similar.

4 : Select and copy the text for TroopStats.txt as indicated farther down in this thread.

5 : Select the entire content of TroopStats.txt in NotePad, and paste.

6 : Repeat 3-5 for Projectiles.txt.

7 : Have fun! Remember that currently in online play both players must have the same set of stats or the game will go out of sync.


If you were just horribly confused by all that--

1 : Email me (gengiskan0@cs.com) and I will send you a package which will make all of this somewhat simpler.

Also, if anyone would like a nice little batch program (in the style of TosaInu) to switch between STW1 and STW2 stats, e-mail me and it shall be delivered.

[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 05-09-2002).]

Content for STW2 Troopstats --

Begin Copying HERE->

Projectile type: NONE = 0, LONG = 1, MTLG = 2, ARQB = 3, MSKT = 4, NINJ = 5
Unroutable: true = 1, false = 0
Marching speed: 1 - 24
Running speed: 1 - 24
Charging speed: 1 - 24
Minimum turning speed: 2 - 8
Maximum turning speed: 2 - 8
Max turning angle whilst in motion: 8 - 256
Speed at which soldier turns towards the direction of motion 8 - 8
Space between neighbours left and right: 30 - 125
Space between neighbours back and front: 30 - 125
Enemy engagement proximity threshold: 500 - 2000
Charge bonus: -6 - 12
Melee bonus: -6 - 12
Defence bonus: -6 - 12
Armour level: 1 - 12
Honour level: -4 - 8
Ammo ( arrows or bullets ): 0 - 255


SamuraiArchers
{
1, 1, 6, 11, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 1000, 6, 0, 6, 2, -5, 28, 40
}

YariSamurai
{
0, 1, 5, 9, 12, 2, 6, 6, 16, 55, 75, 1500, 4, 0, 11, 3, -3, 0, 40
}

Naginata
{
0, 1, 4, 8, 9, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 1500, 6, 1, 11, 5, -1, 0, 40
}

Nodachi
{
0, 1, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 90, 90, 1500, 16, 5, 4, 1, 3, 0, 30
}

CavalryArchers
{
2, 1, 8, 21, 24, 2, 8, 8, 64, 115, 125, 1000, 18, 1, 9, 3, -3, 28, 30
}

HeavyCavalry
{
0, 1, 8, 20, 23, 2, 8, 8, 32, 115, 125, 1500, 21, 3, 10, 5, -1, 0, 30
}

YariCavalry
{
0, 1, 10, 24, 27, 2, 8, 8, 16, 115, 125, 1500, 23, 2, 9, 3, -3, 0, 30
}

YariAshigaru
{
0, 0, 5, 8, 14, 2, 3, 3, 8, 55, 75, 1500, 2, -2, 7, 2, -9, 0, 60
}

Phantoms
{
0, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 1500, 0, -1, -1, 2, -4, 0, 60
}

Arquebusier
{
3, 0, 7, 12, 14, 2, 8, 8, 128, 75, 75, 500, 1, -3, 3, 2, -5, 15, 40
}

Musketeer
{
4, 0, 7, 12, 14, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 500, 1, -3, 3, 2, -5, 15, 30
}

WarriorMonk
{
0, 1, 7, 12, 14, 2, 8, 8, 256, 85, 85, 1500, 16, 3, 9, 1, 3, 0, 30
}

A_Ninja
{
5, 1, 8, 18, 18, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 500, 4, 6, 3, 1, 8, 100, 12
}

A_SwordsMan
{
7, 1, 0, 4, 4, 0, 1, 1, 1, 75, 75, 100, 0, -5, 10, 6, -5, 20, 1
}

A_Mongol_Javelin_Thrower
{
6, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 400, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 4, 40
}

A_Mongol_Spearman
{
0, 0, 6, 10, 12, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 0, 0, 1, 2, -1, 0, 60
}

A_Mongol_Polearmsman
{
0, 0, 5, 8, 10, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 4, 2, 4, 4, 0, 0, 60
}

A_Grenadier
{
7, 0, 6, 8, 10, 2, 8, 8, 256,100,100, 100, 0,-6, -3, 2, 4, 3, 20
}

An_Ashigaru_Xbowman
{
8, 0, 7, 12, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 1, -5, 16, 40
}

A_Nijinata_Cavaleryman
{
1, 1, 10, 25, 28, 2, 8 , 8, 32, 125,140, 1500, 21, 3, 9, 3, -1, 10, 20
}

A_Mongol_Light_Cavaleryman
{
2, 0, 10 ,26, 26, 2, 8, 8, 128,125,140, 1500, 4, 1, 1, 4, 4, 28, 30
}

A_Mongol_Heavy_Cavaleryman
{
0, 0, 10,20, 24, 2, 8, 8, 64,125,140, 1500, 6, 3, 2, 5, 8, 0, 30
}

Content for STW2 Projectiles --

Begin copying HERE->

Projectile-type related stats:-

Length, Frequency, Range, Speed, Accuracy, Power, Reload, Is a gun?, Is Waterproof?

Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.7, 0.4, 4, 0, 1
}

Mounted Longbow
{
25, 11, 5000, 150, 0.5, 0.4, 4, 0, 1
}

Arquebus
{
0, 15, 6000, 200, 0.09, 3.0, 40, 1, 0
}

Musket
{
0, 15, 6000, 200, 0.15, 3.0, 30, 1, 1
}

Ninja Star
{
0, 5, 1200, 100, 0.15, 1.0, 3, 0, 1
}

Javelin
{
0, 5, 2000, 80, 0.03, 0.7, 5, 0, 1
}

Grenade
{
0, 5, 9000, 300, 0.3, 30.0, 100, 0, 0
}

Crossbow
{
10, 5, 6000, 250, 0.15, 3.0, 15, 0, 1
}

If I may, I'd like to suggest a few things:

1) Increase cavalry speed by 20%. I've ran alonside a horse, and theres no chance in hell 120 men with armor and spears keep up with a horse as they do in the game. It would also allow them to flank a lot better and give the opponents less time to react (as it was IRL).

2)B. Ninja : I dont know if you can do this, but if you could make them have a BIG melee bonus when inside forests (like the archers do vs yari units inside forests), they'd be very useful in online games. If a 26 man unit of B.Ninja is able to defeat a unit monks and no-dachi only when inside forests.. well you get the idea.

3) Kensai: Turn the kensai into a cheap, ashigaru-like ninja unit? Historically many disgraced or extremely loyal samurai volunteered to assassinate enemy leaders by taking a single musket and infiltrating the enemy ranks during a battle or at night. If the kensai had light armour, high speed, archer-like melee ability, B.Ninja-like stealth and armed with a single musket, this unit would make a fun assassin unit. If you can, increase his musket range by 25% that of normal muskets. Make him unroutable so he doesnt run away when deep behind enemy lines (he's easy to kill, and his shooting wont be of much danger unless he's targeting your taisho).

As far as #1 I don't know what you're talking about, Cav speeds in STW2 are exactly in keeping with v1.02, I believe.

Matt

Thats what I mean. The cav. would be more realistic if it was about 20% faster. Its a horse vs a man with weapons and spear... and in the current game the horse is barely twice as fast as a yari sam on full run. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

What do you think of the others?

you still havn't gone far enough in my opinion, however for a general audiance this seems about right.

Well done Kahn, a true improvement...

Have you checked out the YA? I'm especially proud of the way they've worked out, you as a historical nut should really like it. How should I have gone further Whitey, I'm interested. Thru e-mail or here is fine.

Matt

holy cow,some effort youve put into...those...posts sounds kool

Lots of work been done here (shivers)- How well does the ai cope with the new stats?

I may be a newbia to Total war modding, but I don't find thease files in my Shogun total war folder

That's probably because you don't have the Warlord Edition or Mongol Invasion.. i.e. you just have plain 'ol original STW.

The files weren't made available until the expansion.

Matt

------------------
Shogun 2 has arrived! Check it out here.

Well, STW2 is now available for direct download. Oh ye peoples, rejoice, and be glad, oh yay.

Indeed.

Matt

------------------
Shogun 2 now available for download, here!

Read all about it, here!!

Yah!

------------------
Matthew
The Way Of The Daimyo

Some feedback for you Khan. I've played with STW2 (do I hear lawyers arriving?) in the 1530 campaign for a week and enjoyed it. The defence values and morale don't have as big an effect as I thought, but do substansiully alter things. As Oda vs. Webels my first memorable battle was being outnumbered by WMs while defending with spears and archers and pulling off the win by choosing just the right moment to attack some Monks in the rear, causing the conclusive chain-rout (initially I thought the archers were too good until I realised my habit of bribing webel archers had paid off in spades!) It strikes me that there is a certain equilibrium to the battle lines, there is a necessity for careful manouevure which resembles sumo! I can't really comment on the units further down the tech-tree (It was quite painful capturing Uesuegi's BN dojo and not being able to use it!) but it did seem like there was a discrepancy between units in terms of 'value for money'. Cavalry deserve to have their morale raised by 2 in order for them to have some degree of independence, and perhaps certain infantry units by 1- in general I was surprised how long some held on though. Thanks for the effort in making it.

Is it possible to put these stats in a downloadable format?

It's only the two files, right?

hehehe, Krast cuts head off, no?

Krast not read later posts, no?

As mentioned earlier, and as has been in my sig for some time, I've gotten a friend to host them. So just click my sig, and you will be carried away to a magical land...

Matt

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Shogun 2 now available for download! Comes with a nifty version-switching program, so never have to break a sweat! Click here NOW!!

To read all about it, click here.

Great Job Matt ! I have been playing STW2 and believe the "tweaks" really polish the game.

Now, if there was only a way to delete a few units completely from the game. Namely the Ken, TB and BN. These units are bordering on “fantasy-land”.

a real troopstateditor is available at the Khans campaigntool