Shame on us

Well, seems we've done it again. Another famine, another one that the UN World Food Program predicted, and once again, thousands of children are starving to death in ways that were predicted over 8 months ago. I am ashamed as a person, for my lack of action, as an American, for my country's and as a human being, for the lack of action on anyone's part.

I saw this at the gym on my lunch hour today. It was all I could do not to start crying when you watched a 10 month old baby too hungry & weak to scream as his skin started falling off...


May God have mercy on us all...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

. Why should we have to pay for something that is squarely Europe's fault?

---

So little kids don't starve to death.

It's not something you can throw money at, but it's this "It's not my fault" attitude that has babies dying across the globe. It is my fault if there's something I could have done and didn't. There was, and I didn't do it. Whether it's more or less my fault than somebody else's, I don't think really matters, and I'm sure it's not going to be an acceptable explanation when I face the Lord.

I'm looking for a non-partisan/non-agenda driven organization that deals with ending hunger. The World Hunger Project looks like they do good work, but it's clear from their website they are advocating marxism (and maybe, after my research is finished, I'll be left to conclude that's the only way to deal with this problem).

All I know is starting today, everything is on the table. I will not rest until I know I have done what I can to ease my conscience. Any help people can offer pointing me towards a group that is interested in solving hunger & disease, and doesn't focus on global income redistribution as the way to do it, I'm all ears...

I'm not talking about sending money to Africa that could have been spent to solve hunger here. I'm saying as a fiscal conservative, there is more than enough slough in our world financial systems that hunger need not exist anywhere. I believe in a free market, but I do not believe in people dying for profitability. Hunger should go the way of polio.

How about the US stop supporting dictatorial governments like the one in Sudan? How about that?

How about we let some of them become communist? They are all dirt poor anyways, what's the harm?

Why we always have to blame someone or some organization on every shitty thing that happends around the Globe.Does it help those children dying in hunger,if they now who is to blame.If UN knew this would happen 8 months ago,and we didnt do anything about it.Its our fault,all of us. :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

How about the US stop supporting dictatorial governments like the one in Sudan? How about that?

How about we let some of them become communist? They are all dirt poor anyways, what's the harm?

---

If you want to start a thread about the politics of Africa, be my guest. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't clutter this one up with that kind of talk.

I did find this site: Bread For the World They seem to be pretty non/bi-partisan. Anybody know much about them?

Why don't we get rid of farm subsidies so that poor countries can grow their own corn? Sure it would make corn more expensive but that would mean less big macs, soda pop and snack chips and therefore less fat people. Would that work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kagemusha

Why we always have to blame someone or some organization on every shitty thing that happends around the Globe.Does it help those children dying in hunger,if they now who is to blame.If UN knew this would happen 8 months ago,and we didnt do anything about it.Its our fault,all of us. :bow:

---

Amen. My conscience can't take another round of this, so this is the famine that got me off my fat ass.

Fully agree kagemusha. This is world problem, finger pointing is not a solution :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

World problem my ass. I didn't go over to africa and steal anyone's food, so I don't want my taxes going there.

---

If you read that article,nobody did steal their food.They lost their crops and now they are suffering from it.Its your choice not to care about your fellow human beings,its your choice and you are entitled to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

How about the US stop supporting dictatorial governments like the one in Sudan? How about that?

How about we let some of them become communist? They are all dirt poor anyways, what's the harm?

---

I believe the US supported classifying to attrocities in the Sudan as genocide. Wasn't it European countries that blocked that declaration? You might find fault with US policies, but I don't think you're going to make hay with that instance.

Don, it's not as simple as aid. Yes, in the short term relief agencies are saving lives and feeding starving people is a worthwhile pursuit for them. But, its not going to do anything in the long term to prevent these situations from happening again and again. Many of the poorest African governments are little more than corrupt, socialist dictatorships. Since the 60's, these African nations have recieved over $500 billion dollars in aid- yet the people there have got poorer and poorer.

It's going to take real government and market reforms to impact the situation in Africa. From our perspective, we can break down trade barriers and end farm subsidies but, I think that's only part of the problem- private property rights are regularly trampled and much of the agricultural land is 'collectivized' in government (corrupt) hands. Unfortunately, there is only so much we can effectively do- the bulk of the reforms will have to come from the Africans themselves. What we can do is get out of their way by not propping up the corrupt regimes with misguided aid and debt-relief.

I also think, as Cube seems to, that the Western 'we know better than you' mentality is also hurting Africans. How many Africans die from malaria and other diseases because we won't allow the use of DDT? Sure, it's great that we can ban it- but we don't have the same level of problems as well as having the resources for dealing with it via other means. For Africans it would literally be a life-saver and many of their health officials are begging to be able to employ it.

But then again, I'm hardly an expert on African poverty and only know what I know from cursory reading on the issue. :shrug:

Niger is a unique case. It's not a corrupt banana republic that has indemic problems. It had two droughts in a row, and in the 3rd season (last summer) they had the worst locust invasion anybody had seen in 15 years. You can do the math.

I know you need to look at all aspects of the problem and deal with all of them. I don't think I absolve myself of any blame by writing a check and forgetting about it.

But one day, I'm going to be explaining to Jesus either "Yes, Lord, as you said, I did what I could for the least of these", or I'll be forced to come back with "Well, I always meant to get around to doing something.... besides there were plenty of people more responsible than me".

What's more, after watching that footage at lunch, I feel ashamed of myself. Even if I was an atheist, I'd be having serious attacks of conscience right now.

By the way, that Bread for the World site is more of a 'dealing with long term issues' through letter writing and attempting to guide policy. It's not a hunger relief site. Again, anybody know of any good organizations that are seeking to end hunger and not push a political agenda?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

World problem my ass. I didn't go over to africa and steal anyone's food, so I don't want my taxes going there.

---

That to me seems a bit harsh. I wonder if you were starving , your crops had just died and all your family was in dire need of food you would keep that same attitude. The world can not cooperate as a civil society with out help from others around you. Have a look at some of the pictures that's how shocking it is. Please just bare a thought for those dying and starving at this very moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Again, anybody know of any good organizations that are seeking to end hunger and not push a political agenda?

---

Unfortunately, Don, one is not going to happen without the other. All aid organizations can do is, at best, treat hunger- they'll never end it without political change. From your own article:

Quote:

---

To make it worse, the rainy season has arrived, and diseases are aid workers' biggest concern.

Malaria is already the biggest killer of children under 2 years old in Africa, and it will claim the lives of many children in Niger, because they are out in the bush, exposed to a rampant mosquito population.

The help that is on the way is too little, too late, some aid workers say. Talk of aid coming has been heard before.

Several aid agencies are on the ground in southern Niger, and they say it's already too late for many children, thousands of whom have died, hundreds of thousands of whom are threatened with imminent death.

---

If we in the West could get over ourselves and allow them to use DDT, the mosquito infestions and malaria epidemics could be all but eradicated. But no, we're letting thousands of humans die because it could, maybe, impact bird populations?

Well, all I'm saying is every long term aid relief website I've been to talks about "and in order to solve hunger long term, we need to reexamine wealth in the world, and why any one person is allowed to own anything". That is definitely NOT what I'm signing up for.

There has to be enough food, medicine & financial resources for transportation of said food & medicince to see to it that hunger and curable diseases are gone. I don't see why we need to force global socialism on people in order to accomplish this.

I donate money to Unicef.Its under UN.Ive been "brainwashed" to do that.Here we have every year a day called nälkä päivä=hunger day.When in all puplic organizations (Schools,army,goverment offices).Everybody eats porridge and the rest of the food budget for that day is given to unicef.I picked up a habbit and i donate money to Unicef on that day once a year.Its not much but something. :bow:

That's actually similar to some of the habits I have Kangemusha. But let's face it, neither your contributions, nor mine, are really hurting us or helping them. I don't even think it has to be painful, but it does have to be effective.

I think we are overlooking a glaring issue. African nations have some of the highest growth rates in terms of population in the world. If we simply feed them and send money over there constantly without political reforms we are NOT helping them!

We are simply making the whole bigger, because their populations will rise in unsurpassed rates and we will not even be able to feed them and still feed ourselves.

This will only be fixed plitically Don. Don't tell me to keep that out of the discussion. You may not see what's probably going to hapen there but I do.

Yes Niger is probably a special case and sending them aid is good, but if they need aid every single year with no sign of improvement then my case for the subject stands.

I agree Don.But it seems that the volunteer organizations that provide food and other help to Africa,all has somekind of political agenda.I think what Unicef does is more or less neutral among the others.The whole situation in Africa just makes me sad.But isnt there a organization called Doctors around the globe.(Im not sure if this is their english name).I think ive heard of an organization whos members are Doctors and other medical staff.I think these guys are professionals.Not just bunch of idealists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince

I think we are overlooking a glaring issue. African nations have some of the highest growth rates in terms of population in the world. If we simply feed them and send money over there constantly without political reforms we are NOT helping them!

We are simply making the whole bigger, because their populations will rise in unsurpassed rates and we will not even be able to feed them and still feed ourselves.

This will only be fixed plitically Don. Don't tell me to keep that out of the discussion. You may not see what's probably going to hapen there but I do.

Yes Niger is probably a special case and sending them aid is good, but if they need aid every single year with no sign of improvement then my case for the subject stands.

---

Okay, BP, just to prove to you that I don't live under a rock, let me point out a few facts to you:

-Fact: It was the United States, not Canada and not Europe that brokered a peace deal between the rebels & the government in the Sudan in January. It was this peace deal that allowed for power sharing that put VP Garang into office in the first place.

-Fact: There are ways to encourage intelligent population control. That doesn't mean that the Western World should pay for a Planned Parethood clinic in every village in Africa.

-Fact: The world already produces enough food to guarantee that there need never be hunger again, anywhere. The fact that it exists is obscene.

-Fact: If you go search the web, you will find that most organizations dedicated to ending world hunger link that issue to forced income redistribution. One shouldn't be forced to become a Marxist in order to work to end hunger.

I'm not saying we cannot talk about the political causes and solutions to hunger. I'm saying that blaming the US solely for the troubles in the Sudan, as you did earlier is 1) foolishly ignorant and wrong 2) not helping feeding a single person.

As much as it pains me to say but what BP says cannot be dismissed lightly. It´s not just a question of "do it or don´t do it". There´s simply no quick answer on how we can help Africa. Sure, we can send food to Niger now. And to the next famine and the next. But there is a very real possibility that helping during a famine will ensure that we will have to help during the next as well. Africa´s problem is rooted deeply: they have much more people than their corrupted societies can care for. And only a fundamental change in the sociocultural makeup of their societies can change that.
I know, you might say that I´m making it myself easy by saying the issue is too complex for me to solve, and I guess that´s actually true in a way. But the issue is complex. I see a very big problem coming, much bigger than anything we have seen so far and I have no idea how to prevent it. What´s the better excuse, being too lazy or too dumb to help? :embarassed:

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter Saturnus, and your 2nd post for that matter, BP. I simply don't see how declaring the US soley to blame for the Sudan has anything to do with solving hunger in Botswana, Peru, or even the US for that matter.

I understand fully that systemic changes beyond 'grow more food' need to be implemented. Hell, look at all the relief agency food that sat on the docks & rotted in Somalia back in 1992 because the warlords were using famine as a weapon.

But you know, at the end of the day, you don't have to solve it all. You just have to do what you can. And we haven't.

I'm in support of debt relief, its not like you'll ever get the money back anyway. Don, there are many churches that do missionary work and oftem adopt entire villages and support those villiages with education, financial support, and even man power to help build homes and school houses. The key to helping the African plight is a two way street. Help them help themselves. Unfortunately I as well as many others don't do enough. I sae that program myself earlier last week and was deeply moved. Many times in the past I've said, "Not my problem", but since seeing that news cast I've changed my mind. Staring into the eyes of a helpless human being, even through a TV screen, has changed my mind. I'm shamed as well. I'm going to look into what my church does for the folks in Africa. I know we have missions that go there yearly. I've got to do something and I'm sure, whatever political belief you or anyone else on the Org have, have it in them to do more. And for those that are already helping these people, God bless you.

Giving aid is great I do it and its a great feeling...but BP is right when he says something needs to be done about growth rates,Aids,Genocide. that might ease some of the suffering. (Niger definitely has had some horrible luck though)

It has been over the news here for a few days, it is a shame on all of us, I totally agree with you Don.

I also don't see how there is a conflict between giving aid / food etc and wanting political reforms home and in the African countries themselves. Both can and should be done, we shouldn't really be bickering about which is more important, but doing all of them.

I agree fully with Cube.. Africa is not America's responsibility and as long as we have significant problems with poverty in this country its irresponsible to try and fix African problems.

And if your conscience is killing you Don, give money to some Christian charities, they do a hell of a lot more good than the child-raping UN.

Africa is the way it couse ever since Europe and America and Asia to I would say became more powerfull then Africa they have raped the nation.
They divided Africa between themselfs with no respect for cultural and ethnic borders.
Africa can produce alot of food, africa got huge amounts of natural resourses and africa has potential. But what it all comes down to are the wars, endless wars and conflicts that we of the west do little to stop.

In the ancient times kingdomes could justifie their existance and ruling due to the fact that they could organize food production and then store away the surpluss so when the drought came, wich they knew allways came from time to time they could take the stored food and deliever it to the needy.

I doubt that nations in africa has become so backwards that they cant do what ancient kingdomes had the capability to do then. The reason african nations often dont have the capability to store away surplus food is couse most money goes to the army since there is allways one or two conflicts in a bordering nation.

Peace = less money to the military = more money to produce food.
The west shouldnt just thorw money at africa but focus on making peace and the rest will solve itself.

well thats all I got to say about that. :bow:

(oh, and if a nation wants to go Socialist or Communist, for the love of your God! Dont stop them!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PanzerJager

And if your conscience is killing you Don, give money to some Christian charities, they do a hell of a lot more good than the child-raping UN.

---

what!? my friend in the UN is a child rapist! NOOOooooo....

rather silly comment there Panzy

You may want to read a bit about the UN "mission" in the Congo.. that is, if you have a strong stomach. :no: