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I've never played as the Egyptians, but maybe I should. Where do they get
their massive amounts of troops ~:eek: ? In all my games they continually
fight off other nations Crusades, battle the Turks, Byzantines, and usually the
Spanish are turned back too :duel: . Although their troops aren't that great,
they do have a bunch of them. How do they do it?
Egypt, Palestine, Antioch and Tripoli are all good, farming-income provinces. In addition, Egypt and Antioch (?) have two tradable resources, while Tripoli has three. Actually, I might've gotten Tripoli and Antioch mixed up.
In short, @$$loads of cash.
IMHO, it's because when AI fights other AI, it's using autocalc. So, instead of fighting 16 units vs 16, the eggies can front up armies of 3000+ against any invaders and its as if every single one of their units is simultaneously taking part in the 'fight'. Hence, even with inferior troop quality, they can fend off all manner of attacks.
antisocialmunky put it, quite succinctly, as 'peasant spam'. Get some of your priests in there and look at their troop numbers and mix. When you try them for yourself, you'll see just how cheap most of their units are.
Originally Posted by Mujalumbo:
Antioch: Silk, Spices, Gems
Egypt, Palestine, Antioch and Tripoli are all good, farming-income provinces. In addition, Egypt and Antioch (?) have two tradable resources, while Tripoli has three. Actually, I might've gotten Tripoli and Antioch mixed up.
In short, @$$loads of cash.
Tripoli: Cotton, Sugar
Egypt: Cotton, Ivory
Syria: Gems
Agree about the farm yeilds. All the better once improved and even more so with high acumen governors.
Muslim factions get 'Qadi al Qada' (sp?), equivalent of Chancellor, I think, which probably puts another 2 acumen (~20% extra) onto their best Govenor.
Arabia has poor farm yeilds but is out of reach of other factions, until their front lines are broken open. It is therefore the logical place to tech-up and churn out troops during the time while other regions spend time building the farms.
AI Egypt seems to be very lackadaisical about developing its sea trade. No human player would make this mistake. I think it has something to do with the way the game assigns a behaviour type to each faction, somewhat randomly, at the beginning of a campaign. I have seen Egypt bother to make ships but, in my limited experience, I've only seen this happen once (out of about half a dozen campaigns, none completed thus far, for various reasons).
(Y.M.M.V.)...
If their lands and trade goods are managed properly, the Egyptians can get some truly massive income going, even if they don't do much expansion. As the other fellows here have already pointed out, the Eggies (when controlled by the AI) aren't the greatest developing their trade network, but their provinces still generate some very decent income even without much trade. When you play as the Egyptians yourself and get a fleet going to build up trade income, you'll be amazed at how quickly you become the richest faction. ~D
It's also worth bearing in mind a couple things about Muslim units:
1.) They seem to be a little cheaper than Catholic units, at least on a per capita basis.
2.) They're better suited to fighting in desert/arid regions, and it seems like the AI takes this into account when auto-calculating battles. That could just be my imagination, however.
The Eggies match up well against the Turks and Almos in Early, and have to defend only one province on the African Coast. Once they get to Georgia and Constantinople they have good chokepoints there too. Make a good navy and you have a solid base. The constant crusading is offset by the good income, as others have said.
Plus they have Camels ~:)
ichi :bow:
Maybe they're learning some tricks from their younger brothers in rtw....
But really, i think it's the secure provinces that don't get looted etc. and so can develop nice little incomes.
In my current game the Eggies have gotten really big, pushed into Europe and absorbed the Hungarians. They got as far as Poland (which was rebel at the time). This brought them up to my borders, and, knowing just how peaceful and trustworthy the AI usually is ~;) , I attacked them last turn. So far a bloodless walk-over in Poland and that one skinny province to the east of it, 1500 captured troops they didn't decide to ransom, and a bloody amphibious fight which has given me Egypt (for now).
I'm not too worried because they seem to have far too many missle troops, not enough Saracen Infantry. I sent second-line troops to Egypt because I was worried about armor in the desert, and they kicked ass.
Maybe it's time to try out Wes' MedMod...
DA
Yeah Del Arroyo I agree about Egypt not really being all that militarily and not living up to its hype. The AI builds are way too unbalanced and thoughtless like as you mentioned heavy horse archer armies in Egypt or one time I encounted the Pope with about 9 units of catapults and the rest peasants (wtf?!?).
I followed your same line of thought and sent in second rate troops without armor upgrades and beat them a lot more easier than I could have imagined. The only nation that I've had problems dealing with are the Byzantines who have some kick ass heavy infantry and those Katakaproi horsemen.
Swiss are tough, too. And English with their Billmen. But the Swiss didn't even come out this last game-- their lands were occupied by the pope :embarassed:
DA
they do so because of their location, the desert, they have the best units for desert, Beduin Camel Warriors (very cheap) and demolish heavy knights in a desert (thats why the spanish never make it in my campaign too), their Mamluk Cavalry is also very good. They never expand beyond the desert regions in my campaigns
My favourite faction......
They have three excellent economy provinces- Egypt, Antioch and Tripoli, can easily get the fourth- Rum. In my campaigns as Turkish or Eggs Byzantines always conquer northern lands, leaving their Asian provinces undefended. Desert archers and Bedouins are very good for fighting in desert.
https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5232/626zu.jpg
year 1185
Mine units were mostly Ghulam cav, desert archers and Saracen inf
But in my experience eating Eggys for brekkie, if they don't have camels, they are mine! Ha ha ha! Their infantry is dismal so once I break their army, I can just mop up the reinforcements.
Azi
I'm kind of tempted to start up an Egyptian campaign now.
Am I alone in thinking Syria or something should get an iron resource, to reflect access to wootz-steel weapons?
Originally Posted by Azi Tohak:
In their defense, they do have Saracen Infantry, which are just like chivalric sergeants, an era early, though I don't know how they make up for the complete lack of swordsmen.
Their infantry is dismal so once I break their army, I can just mop up the reinforcements.
Originally Posted by littlebktruck:
In their defense, they do have Saracen Infantry, which are just like chivalric sergeants, an era early, though I don't know how they make up for the complete lack of swordsmen.
Two words, my friend: Ghazi Infantry. ~D
Originally Posted by Martok:
and Arab infarty ~:cool: . But Europian swordsmen have good both attack and defence, while Ghazis (probably religious fanatics) and Arab inf have excellent attack but they suck in defence. I usually attack witk Saracen inf from the front, and after a short time with Ghazis and Arab inf from the flank
Two words, my friend: Ghazi Infantry. ~D
Originally Posted by Knight Templar:
and Arab infarty ~:cool: . But Europian swordsmen have good both attack and defence, while Ghazis (probably religious fanatics) and Arab inf have excellent attack but they suck in defence.
Maybe, but who cares? ~:cool: I love my Gazi infantry; they're like Highland Clansmen on steroids! They massacre just about every foot unit they come across, and you gotta love guys that fight almost to the last man. ~D
Just a few ideas if you play the egyptians.Round about the 7th century AD an arab general said, "War is very simple,it is just the firing of arrows,then the thrusting of spears,then the slashing of swords,that is all there is to it."
So having read up on the tactics this is what i do.Archers in front ,then the spears,then the arab infantry which i try to hold back untill all the enemy units are engaged.They can then try and get round the flanks or generally mop up.The ghulham cavalry should be deployed on the flanks as usual with the generals unit held in reserve in the centre.Saharan cav can form a light screen ahead of the army to skirmish or just generally trip up any fancy moves the enemy make.Dont worry too much about the archers in front as you can pull them back behind the spears and they tend to do this on thier own ive found.
Early arab armies didnt have horse archers but before you get your mamaluk units you could hire some turcoman horse or vanilla horse archers.Frankish and greek mercanaries where often used as well so it would be historically acurate to throw in some Byzantine infantry and Mounted Sargents as well.
In general KEEP YOUR ARMY TOGETHER AS ONE UNIT<KEEP IT SIMPLE.
MAKE THE ENEMY COME TO YOU.Hope this helps.
The Kalifah of Watton..... :charge:
Yes Ghazis have shockingly bad defence, but its not there job to survive! Their job is to kill more people than they lose and they do this very well, especially important as you can do this against troops which cost far more and you replace your army much more cheaply. The only other thing I ask of them is not to rout, but they have high moral already and if you train them in province with a mosque and ribat you will never be disapointed.
Your saracens will beat any catholic spears in early and match most in high, use the ghazis to take out the expensive stuff!
Originally Posted by tigger_on_vrb:
Yes Ghazis have shockingly bad defence, but its not there job to survive! Their job is to kill more people than they lose and they do this very well, especially important as you can do this against troops which cost far more and you replace your army much more cheaply. The only other thing I ask of them is not to rout, but they have high moral already and if you train them in province with a mosque and ribat you will never be disapointed.
Your saracens will beat any catholic spears in early and match most in high, use the ghazis to take out the expensive stuff!
Exactly! Ghazis are a great "fire-and-forget" unit. You just let them off their leashes, and let them do their thing. ~:) They're far and away one of my favorite units in the Early period--for any faction. Jinnettes and Huscarles are probably the only other units in Early with which I have as much fun.
Absyinian Guards are better than Ghazis in my opinion. I once beat a unit of JHI with Absynian guards, with equal valour i think, I was impressed BUT, Ghazis Absynian Guards are the best infantry for their money IMO
Also, mamluk cavalry are very underrated, they've got armour piercing. I think the only other cavalry unit to feature that are the gothic knights.
A 2-valour mamluk cavarly unit could beat a 0-valour lancers unit.
Originally Posted by danielrech:
Druzhina are AP too, but they aren't heavy cavalry.
Also, mamluk cavalry are very underrated, they've got armour piercing. I think the only other cavalry unit to feature that are the gothic knights.
Yes, Mamluks are almost as good as Ghulams, and considerably better against heavily armored targets. However, their charge is unimpressive and if the target isn't heavily armoured Ghulams beat them hands down.
Originally Posted by Ludens:
I think Ghulams are a bit better because of charge and attack. Mamluks are better against heavily armored units, but thez are not avaliable in early period.
Yes, Mamluks are almost as good as Ghulams, and considerably better against heavily armored targets. However, their charge is unimpressive and if the target isn't heavily armoured Ghulams beat them hands down.