I LOVE the Scipii faction, I must admit it :P

The Scipii faction is just great, first of all you can get the most powerful gladiator in the game, the Mirmillo or whatever they are called. The Julii and Brutii have weak gladiators. Second of all you can get those 2 powerful ships which only the Scipii can get, I think they are called the Corvus and the Deceres.

Then we can go onto some other things, like how much easier it is to start off playing as the Scipii than the other factions. You don't have to deal with the Gauls in the north like the Julii's do because they are an incredible pain at the beginning of the game, and plus you have the Julii towns and Rome serving as a barrier from them.

My only complaint, no Silver Shield Legionaires like the Seleucids, no Cataphracts, and no Spartan Hoplites. But the good news is, you can hire them all as mercenaries anyway so it isn't a problem! ~:cool:

So basically the Scipii faction is perfect for me, dunno about what your preferences are on Roman factions but based on my experience they are definitely the best.

Hi and welcome to the forums ~:)

The Scipii, as all the Roman factions are indeed powerfull. You're correct about their late ships. They also get the mirmillo gladiators. However, i don't believe they are the best of the three, for a number of reasons: they are weaker than the Julii samnite glad's. They don't get a bonus vs elephants and chariots as do the Brutii one's. Finally they cost more and come late to the game, thus u need a much larger settlement to produce them. The only area were they are better than their counterparts is their charge value. They do have the best graphics tho.

As far as the Cataphracts u'r right, but then again no romans get them. However they do get all the roman cav's including the powerfull Praetorian cavalry. Concerning Silver SHields, you do get them. In the form of Legionary Cohorts. By the way, you can't get cataphracts, silver shileds nor spartans as merceneries.

On the starting position, i also believe the Scipii have the most difficult position, as their cities are divided and in Sicily they have to battle against the elephant carth unit and a strong greek city state army. Assaulting the greek city is tough as well, as it has stone walls. After taking the island you are set, but you still have to trans ur troops to africa to attack the carthage homelands, which can be a tricky trip due to the powerfull carthagianian navy. The gauls can be taken by storm, not too hard for a julii commander.

Personally, for the above reasons i find the Scipii the hardest. However, if we were talking about a human vs human campaign, i'd give them the advantage because of their ships and god. If you are interested there was an excellent comparison among the 3 roman factions some months earlier. You could try digging that post out. My preference goes to the julii.

i find them the easiest of the roman factions.two cities within easy reach,big plus the vulcan temple upgrades.also carthage is a skip away,i like to take it and exterminate it then vacate and let it build up again,then take it again.

Personally, I prefer the Julii. I like to take the gauls sea ports while also beating the Brutii to the Northwest Greek cities. Good income, and it's easy to fend off the Gauls early in the game while you concentrate on beating the brutii at their own game.
Just my opinion for what it's worth.

I prefer the Brutii. For difficulty I suppose the Julii are best, but the Brutii get the richest regions ingame really fast (Greece, Asia Minor). The Scipii take Carthage and Sicily, and then...what? Desert oblivion. It'll take you forever to get to Egypt, and Numidia just isn't worth the time though they keep irritating you. Whereas the Brutii have got cities within one-two turns of one another with paved roads, and access to the best mercenaries ingame. If you want to talk about good mercs, take a look at Asia Minor. I'd say for game experience the Brutii are probably the most profitable to play as, but I daresay Julii pip all the others for colour scheme, gladiators notwithstanding.

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

The Scipii take Carthage and Sicily, and then...what? Desert oblivion. It'll take you forever to get to Egypt, and Numidia just isn't worth the time though they keep irritating you.

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Which is why you don't push further into Africa after you've taken Cathage & Thapsus. You build ships in Messana and set sail to Greece. The AI Brutii are slow to conquer and often make alliance with Macedon which slows them down even more. If you didn't waste time with your initial conquests (Syracuse can be taken very early, you just have to know how to assault fortified cities) then there's still probably plenty of Greek/Macedonian cities left to grab. And you'll definetly beat the Brutes to Asia Minor. Going to Egypt doesn't take "forever" when you first capture the island of Crete and use it as a base to launch an ambiphious assault.

The Scipii are my favourite Roman factions as well g3n, but just one thing mate. :book:

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Originally Posted by g3n

My only complaint, no Silver Shield Legionaires like the Seleucids, no Cataphracts, and no Spartan Hoplites. But the good news is, you can hire them all as mercenaries anyway so it isn't a problem! ~:cool:

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Why would you want Silver Shield Legionaires if you have the likes of Urbans and Legionarry First Cohorts etc.?
Also Cataphracts and Spartans are Seleucid and Greek units so it would be pretty pointless all having them in one faction. But if you want it that way you could mod the game I suppose? ~:confused:

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

I prefer the Brutii. For difficulty I suppose the Julii are best, but the Brutii get the richest regions ingame really fast (Greece, Asia Minor). The Scipii take Carthage and Sicily, and then...what? Desert oblivion. It'll take you forever to get to Egypt, and Numidia just isn't worth the time though they keep irritating you. Whereas the Brutii have got cities within one-two turns of one another with paved roads, and access to the best mercenaries ingame. If you want to talk about good mercs, take a look at Asia Minor. I'd say for game experience the Brutii are probably the most profitable to play as, but I daresay Julii pip all the others for colour scheme, gladiators notwithstanding.

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If you the first turn your sent your from Capua to conquer Appolonia - than you will dominate in Greece, because Brutii will stupidly stand near your city waiting for something ( Appolonia is the first city they are to conquer ).
Then you ( if you are quick enough ) can continue your expansin on Greek's lands without much interfearence from Brutii.

Rhodes my friends--Rhodes.

Whichever faction gets there first has the trading bonus and a base for conquering Greece, Asia Minor, and the costal cities of the Middle East.

Even the Julii can win this prize before the other Roman factions. Just make a point of equipping a strong expeditionary force and sail away. Concentrate all forces and resources on the goal, while just holding off Gaul invasions (the Senate forces may even provide armies to assist in the defense). Patience will pay off.

The Julii will then have access to better trade routes than can be found in Gaul and most of Spain. Use Rhodes as the Julii's self-sufficient Eastern Empire to build its own armies (usually more advanced than can be recruited in Italy at that time) and attack the Greeks from the eastern side of the Greek/Macedonian Peninsula. At the same time, the Brutii and Scipii should be hammering the Greeks from their borders on the "other side" drawing enemy armies away from the Julii front.

The Julii will still have Gaul and Spain to conquer at their leisure, as the other two factions do not turn their attention to these areas until much later in the game (if at all).

When I played Scipii I conquered Carthage, allied Numidia, then invaded Spain and Southern France. Somewhere in the middle of that I got into a war with Egypt so they were next and then I pushed up through the Middle East and Asia Minor and conquered all that along with Numidia at the end(they never broke the alliance) to reach my 50 regions. I never even touched Greece or had a civil war. Well, technically I had a civil war, but the game ended the same turn. I marched my heir into a plague stricken Rome with a full stack of Mirmillo Gladiators behind him under the guise of "establishing order".

If your Scippii can successfully smash the Cartha army in Sicily, will the Cartha elephant unit become available as a merc in that area? I have read that sometimes smashed units from a force whose commander perished -- happy to arrange that if I can -- turn into mercs available for a short time in the immediate area.

SF

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

If your Scippii can successfully smash the Cartha army in Sicily, will the Cartha elephant unit become available as a merc in that area? I have read that sometimes smashed units from a force whose commander perished -- happy to arrange that if I can -- turn into mercs available for a short time in the immediate area.

SF

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Really? I've never met such instances...

Did you mistake it for disbanded units from MTW? Cause it that game even former princes, when disbanded, can go around seeking mercernary jobs as jedi-for-hire. :)

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If you are interested there was an excellent comparison among the 3 roman factions some months earlier. You could try digging that post out. My preference goes to the julii.

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< tries looking humble... fails

Said post is in frogbeatsegg's guide in the Guides dection. Frog's Guide is an excellent read anyway for any player no matter how well they might think they know the game - I believe she will be adding my breakdown as an appendix... however she may not have found the time to do so yet... you might have to flip to page 6 or so of that thread...

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I recently found another advantage to the Scipii. This requires a player that really knows their stuff. There is no margin of error. With the Scipii...

... you can prevent the other Romans from capturing a single province...

I repeat - you can keep them stuck with their little first two provinces and no more - I'm doing it currently in a campaign. Vanilla game.

On the first turn - split your army several ways. Send on force from your capital as far north as they can go towards the unwalled barbarian town near the Julii. Your general will be able to reach it on the second turn - if you wait longer the Julii will seize it - you can get there first however... From there - move on to hit the Gauls - you will be fighting many battles and you will be outnumbered in them all... like I said - If you know your stuff however... it's possible. Keep moving north to grab the rebels between you and the Germans and to push the Gauls back. Never stay in a town longer than two or three turns... keep the army moving - hire merceneries to fill out your forces and send reinforcements piecemeal from the first sackings to support the newer efforts as you can.

Send a second army (I use the term "army" loosely... in reality the "army" is just one general) to capture Corsica. You can win with your one general. From there move across to Palma and from there into Spain.

Your third army... moves against the Greek city in Sicily - you'll need a few Hastatis to do this... two or three... the Greeks will send a group of troops outside the city - destroy these - then siege the city - make it fast - Carthage's army is coming... sack the city - beat Carthage in the field - wait a turn - pursue them to own Sicily. You'll need skirmishers to counter the elephants. From Sicily take out Carthage.... start moving for Egypt.

Your fourth army takes your other boat directly from your capital to the Rebel city directly across from the Brutii. You can get there in two turns again. Your boat will run out of movement - but you'll be able to unload your general and attack... from there move up a little to connect the coast with your Gallic holdings and then go for Greece and Macedon.

Every time you get a new general - and you'll get them since you're expanding rapidly - I've had four or five men of the hour so far. Split your troops and send them in different directions to grab as much as possible as quickly as you can... If you get a new general with a man who has campaigned for a while... let the veteran govern for a bit and send the fresh man off to win some glory - in this way you'll start to make up for you shortage of governors... by thirty turns or so you should be reaching a bit of a balance.

I'm about thirty turns into the game... I own half of Spain and Gaul (I'm leaving half to try and get temples to Epona), I've pushed the rebels out that are between me and the Germans, I own Greece and half of Macedonia. I own every islands west of that "K" one near Sparta, Carthage is gone, I have half of Numidia... In short I have a mini Roman Empire... somewhere around 25-30 province... (sorry my numbers aren't exact - I haven't had time to play in weeks) The Brutii and the Julli both merely have the two provinces they started with and that is it. My original Faction Leader is still alive and currently leading a campaign across the deserts of northern Africa towards Egypt.

The closest I came to failure with this goal was when the Brutii landed a shipload of soldiers on that "K" island near Sparta. I had just finished taking Sparta and my men couldn't move that far in one turn... I knew if I waited one turn the settlement would be green... the place had no walls. After all my battles outnumbered 2, 3, 4... even 5 to 1 it seemed my mission was going to fail... I thought about the possibility of using a Spy and Assasin task force to push the Brutii back out... but that's expensive and time consuming... and by no means guaranteed to work - sometimes the ppl just won't rebel...

Finally I saw my opportunity... my diplomat in Greece hadn't moved yet - with the dice tumbling away I loaded him on the Bireme and dropped him off on the island... he had the movement points... the question was... did I have the cash? I'd been building ferociously - ever settlement had it's building queu full and anybody that could make Hastatis, was. Even with all my pillage and plunder my reserves were just around 11,000....

I made the offer.

They asked for 7500. A significant chunk... but worth every penny. After all - this had been the entire objective for this campaign! Now my second fear arose....

I had no soldiers to garrison my new town. Sure enough the absolute best I could get happiness was 60%. If the town rebeled... that Brutii army would happily "reassert Roman order". With furrows in my brow and a heavy heart I signaled for the next turn...

The town did not rebel! The new unit of peasants put it firmly in my grasp and it's been smooth sailing since. The Brutii got back on their boat and sailed back to Italy... grinding their teeth... upstaged once again.

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The point of all this is - you CANNOT do this with either the Brutii or the Jullii. They just can't reach those first cities in the first two turns... Long live the Scipii :)

With regards to the question about elephant mercs: not possible in cherry vanilla, I think... a lot of the cases where people thought they'd found mercs from armies they'd destroyed were cases where the mercenary was already available there anyway, before the army was destroyed. Dunno though, maybe BI'll have it. But I'm not sitting around to find out...

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Originally Posted by pezhetairoi

With regards to the question about elephant mercs: not possible in cherry vanilla, I think... a lot of the cases where people thought they'd found mercs from armies they'd destroyed were cases where the mercenary was already available there anyway, before the army was destroyed. Dunno though, maybe BI'll have it. But I'm not sitting around to find out...

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Maybe it is my mistake, but IMO elephants mercs. can be hired in certain areas, in later game.

I'm not so keen on the Scipii for several reasons:
1. Growth for their two mains cities is quite often retarded because they sit right beneath a volcano.
2. These two cities are split by the sea, making assembling an army harder.
3. To take Sicily you have to declare war on two countries.
4. Carthage is not the richest faction in the game. Greece is much better.
5. If you don't speed your conquest of Carhtage up quickly, they'll bring in the elephants which are a real pain.

A funny thing happened after taking out Carthage.

A month or so ago, I was playing as the Scipii, and had been very aggressive. I eliminated Carthage from the game because as somebody said, "if you don't do it fast, they get to be a real pain." So, I made fast work of them. What was funny is that a few turns later, the message came up about Carthage coming up with "clear glass."

I just chuckled, and thought, they weren't around to invent it "this time. Ha Ha!"

I went on to spread West on across Africa, and the Egyptians attacked me from the East. Once they get desert axemen and foundries, THEY can be a real pain too.

When I played as the Egyptians, I prefered "Pharaoh's Guards." They do have their use, but I have since learned that when I play as the Egyptians again, I will keep in mind just how tough the axemen are.

I like playing as the Scipii, but as one of you mentioned, you MUST have a strong Navy, which I often neglect, usually only getting a ship or two to shuttle units around with. Problem is, they seem to get attacked more often when transporting something or somebody much more often than when they are traveling empty. As Scipii, I find myself forced to make a strong navy.

Preference wise, I go for the Julii. As I press North and Westward, there is always great potential to improve the towns as I take them over. The barbarians cannot seem to build or even upgrade stone walls, sewers, baths, academies, and so forth. This gives the Julii has the honor of bringing up the standard of living as they move up, while the barbarians tend to bring down the standard of living as they move down.

I like Red too! Bright Crimson Red! A real "in your face color."

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

There is Cataphract mercenaries in the Mundus Magnus mod, which is what I was referring to. They are called Nomadic Cataphracts and are from Parthia, I love to keep these guys around against annoying egyptian spearmen, and since the Cataphract is pretty much 100% armored, it's absolutely lovely ~:cool: .

The axemen recieved a super typo, by the way. These bare-chested men have an armour rating of 11!

Bloody strong. They can stop cataphract charges with relative ease, and cut through Seleucid phalanxes like peasants.

OM(F)G I hate the Egyptians in vanilla...

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Originally Posted by IliaDN

Maybe it is my mistake, but IMO elephants mercs. can be hired in certain areas, in later game.

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No, you're right, elephant mercs CAN be hired in certain areas, but my point was that you don't have to have destroyed a unit of elephants in that area before you can recruit a unit of them...

I am a big fan of scipii too!!
They get to destroy those carthaginian elephant raiders. You dont need to fight against some stinking gauls.
You can upgrade your capital with a governors palace on the first few turns. ~:cheers: Brutii and julii will have to wait much longer.