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Do you prefer having 3-4 units in your full stack armies, or do you favour 6-8 different units so that you have more options on the battlemap?
Having played Macedon a lot, I found 3-4 units - e.g 8 Lancers, 6 Pikemen, 3 Archers plus 3 Mercs was a winning combination everytime.
For Macedon I go with 2 lancers/Greek cav. 1 Macedonian cav/Companions 2 Hypasptis 2 Cretan archers 1 General 1 siege weapon 1 Illyrian merc and 10 phalanx pikemen. Works better than you might think.
Thats a lot of Pikemen for a faction that draws most strength from its Cav.
Playing RTR, my full stack as Romans in Italy is typically:
1 General
2 velites
2 hastati
2 principes
1 triarii
1 equite
1 funditore (slinger)
2 Italian skirmishers
2 Italian swords
2 Italian spears
1 Italian heavy cavalry
1 Cretan archer
2 mercenaries for local colour
If I am out of Italy, I would replace the Italians with appropriate local allied troops.
This is (a) to be historical (the above represents something akin to 2 legions and 2 allied alae, a typical Republican army); (b) for game balance (a power maxing RTR army would just be principes and funditores, but that's no challenge).
I find it's great fun - you find yourself husbanding your valuable Roman units (which are hard to retrain away from home). And the variety does make for more tactical decisions. I find myself relying a lot on flanking an enemy piecemeal whereas in MTW I just march forward with a spearwall backed by archers)
It's a lot more fun with half a stack though, as then the AI can be a real threat.
Actually it's not enough pikemen. A small phalanx was 16 companies of 256 men each. A real phalanx was 3 small phalanxes. The cavalry is just there to hit the enemy in the flank/rear while they are engagin your pikemen. That's the Macodnian way. And this is how I try and use my pike using greek armies.
Now
Rome, pre-marian 2 velties, 2 Roman archers, 4 hastati, 4 princepes, 4 triarii, 2 equites, plus general and siege weapon
Marian 1 first cohort, 9 legionary cohorts 2 archer auxilia, 2 auxilia spears, 2 Roman cavalry, 1 cavalry auxilia, 1 legionary cavalry, general and siege weapon
Civil defense forces 4 town watch 2-4 praetorian/urban cohorts, 2 gladiators and or Arcani
Rome however is a special case because I will switch out the siege wepaon for war hounds pigs or Arcani
Seleucids
2 silver shield pikes and legions, 6 phalanx pikemen, 2 archers, 1 militia cavalry, 2 greek cavalry, 1 companion/cataphract, 2 war elephant/armoured elephant, general seige wepaon.
Yeah, I always try to attack with armies below the strenght of the enemy. That way you're in for a real challenge. I do the same in custom battles, where I give the enemy a monetary advantage of about 4000-6000 denarii and leave the difficulty on medium.
Simon: Sounds like an interesting set up! I've downloaded RTR the otherday, when I start playing as Rome I'll give it a try. Right now I'm busy guiding Pontus to victory :charge:
Hi there ~:wave:
Generally I play as the Romans and both pre- and post-marius I try to use a 3/4 stack with the last 1/4 being used for mercs when necessary.
Pre-marius:
4 Hastati
4 Principes
2 Triarii
2 Missile
3 Cavalry
Post-marius:
1 First Cohort
9 Legionary Cohorts
2 Missile
3 Cavalry
:charge:
I like to build armies as fast as possible. So most of my Roman armies are composed like this:
2 urban cohorts in one city, 4 legionnary cohorts, 4 auxiliae, 4 archers and four cavalry. Four turns to build an army, another to regroup them.
Horse Archers, Persian Cavalry and Cataphracts. Who could ask for anything more — once you apply Qwerty's fix for cavalry archers.
A good basic stack for Seleucids:
1 General
1 War Elephants
1 Bedouin Camel Archers (merc)
2 Companion Cavalry
2 Cataphracts
2 Archers
2 Cretan Archers (merc)
2 Onagers
7 Phalanx Pikemen
An elite stack would be more like:
1 General
1 Scythian Horse Archers (merc)
2 Armored Elephants
3 Cataphracts
2 Onagers
4 Cretan Archers (merc)
7 Silver Shield Pikemen
An "early" stack to use before you get the infrastructure to build good units:
1 General
1 Bedouin Camel Archers (merc)
1 Bedouins (merc)
1 Arab Cavalry (merc)
3 Militia Cavalry
2 Cretan Archers (merc)
4 Peltasts
7 Levy Pikemen
And finally, a stack for assaulting cities with:
1 General
2 Cataphracts
4 Cretan Archers (merc)
4 Onagers
4 Silver Shield Legionaries
5 Phalanx Pikemen
As you can see, I like balanced armies for field. 6 cavalry (7 if you use the general), 6 missile/artillery and 7 infantry. But assaulting fortified cities demands more infantry and artillery, less cavalry. Also notice the heavy use of mercenaries in the "early" stack. The lowest-tier units for Seleucids tend to be quite sucky, while their homelands have plenty of high quality mercs available. I would also not recommend using full stacks in early game (for most factions), since you usually can't afford many units yet. It's better to have several smaller armies to attack multiple cities simultaneously than just one full stack.
As Romans I use for a full stack combination of:
10 line infantry(Hastati,Principes,Legionary cohort,Praetorian Cohort)
3 archers
6 cavalry
1 general
Its easy to break up for three smaller armies.:
first section:
4 line infantry
1 archers
2 cavalry
two other sections:
3 line infantry
1 archers
2 cavalry
When i play Romans i dont use spear infantry at all.
As post-Marian Romans, I usually use:
1 General
11 Legionary Cohorts
4 Archer Auxilia
4 Roman Cavalry
But I may vary. The minimum of Legionary Cohorts (or infantry equivalents like Praetorians or Urbans) is usually 10, though. (I have two stacks currently when I have Mercenary War Elephants taking up one Legionary slot)When standing still legionaries are quite capable of stopping cavalry so I don't like to use Auxilia infantry. Roman Cavalry might be replaced with Legionary cavalry or Praetorian cavalry, but I usually only use them to catch routers so I can't be bothered with their long training periods (besides the fact they're difficult to retrain).
Starting setup is usually like this:
L= Legionary Cohort
C= (Roman) Cavalry
A= Auxilia Archers
G= General
AAAA
L L L L L L
CC__L L L L L__CC
G
Pretty much what I would do with Roman elite units, Brutus. Probable wouldn't have so many Archer Auxilias though..
1 General
8 Legionary Cohort
2 Archer Auxilia
6 Roman/Praetorian Cav
3 Mercs (Usually skirmishers of any kind, but hoplites or basternae can be useful)
~:eek: How do you handle heavy chariots then? just with flanking cavalry?Quote:
Originally Posted by kagemusha
Easy line up three cohorts to soak them up. Heavy chariots are nothing but charge once that's over they are easy to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hold Steady
Hmm, at the time I conquered egypt with the scipii I was still pre-marius. I had to soak em up with hastati. That's harder I guess. The charge indeed stopped somewhere down into my units, but soon they started swirlin' round INSIDE my units, IF they didn't rout allready. You know, the thing that happens when the unit you charge with cavalry hasn't got enough 'body' to effectively 'hold' the horses/chariots. I allways took one or two merc hoplites along, before I got triarii. And still got whacked a few times in the middle of libya. Best opposition I ever had in RTW. except maybe the battle at Cordoba Hill against the Iberians. Still don't know what hit me there..Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Oh yah, mind you, it was both on 'very hard'.
I never play higher than medium. But I've killed Egyptian gnerals with hillmen as Parthia. It's not hard you just have to take the initial charge, whitch can be killer.
because i play mostly Julli & Parthia here's my formation
Romans post Marius
1 general
1 archer auxilla
2 praetorian cohort
8 first legionary cohort
2 legionary cavalry
2 praetorian cavalry
4 onagers
Parthia
1 cataphract general
2 cataphracts
15 horse archers (persian cavalry)
2 eastern infantry (just for holding the enemy in place)
General, 4 Scythian Noble Archers and the rest all Horse Archers. Though my faction leader that conquered Rome had a mixed bunch...
Himself, 4 Barbarian Mercs, 4 Barbarian Merc Cav, 3 Merc HA, 2 Scythian Noble Archers and the rest Horse Archers.
I also had fun against the Senate with my Ladies army....5 Head Hunters and 15 Scythian Noblewomen
.....Orda
yes....many horse archers units (over 10) offers you victory for sure if u know how to use them....with a horse archer army is possible to win a battle without taking any casualties
My army composition really depends on the faction. A general rule of the thumb, however, is one ranged unit per two melee units and an even number of melee cavalry, positioned equally at the flanks, if possible both heavy cavalry for flank protection and shock attacks and light one for killing the enemies´ ranged units and chasing routers. I seldom use more than two ranged cavalry units, as they need a bit too much attention for my taste. If I can, I also add some, usually beween two to five, onagers to my army.