Egyptian valor/moral

I've decided to give the Egyptians a try since I've read such good things here
about their economy and I wanted to fight off alot of crusades. ~:cool:

The problem I am having is with the actual fighting: no matter if I have a
four or five star general, the troops have a very bad habit of routing, they
will return rather quickly, but my troops are NOT allowed to run from the

fighting :furious3: - heads will roll. They will even run from the Almos even
when Egypt has a bigger army ~:confused: . What gives? I'm used to
playing as HRE, Danes, Spain or France and have never had these kinds of
problems before.

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Originally Posted by dgfred

I've decided to give the Egyptians a try since I've read such good things here
about their economy and I wanted to fight off alot of crusades. ~:cool:

The problem I am having is with the actual fighting: no matter if I have a
four or five star general, the troops have a very bad habit of routing, they
will return rather quickly, but my troops are NOT allowed to run from the

fighting :furious3: - heads will roll. They will even run from the Almos even
when Egypt has a bigger army ~:confused: . What gives? I'm used to
playing as HRE, Danes, Spain or France and have never had these kinds of
problems before.

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Give a little bit more details, e.g. how did your battle with the Almohads go? Did your general have a nasty vice maybe? Muslim troops do go well with a head on charge so if you did that I would not be surprised if they were chopped up by the Almohad Urban Militia... :wink:

All were small battles- less than 1000 troops each- and I eventually won, but
even the Numidian spearmen acted alot like my peasants in HRE campaign.
Retreat at any moment, not effective against opposition spears. My desert
archers are the only units I seem to handle very well :embarassed: .

Did your General have any morale reducing V&Vs? I once beat an Egyptian King so many times on the battlefield he had a total of -16 morale from his Vices ~D In the end all I had to do was turn up and his army ran ~:cheers:

Nubian Spearmen will get chewed up and spit out by Almohad Urban Militia. AUMs are one of the strongest units available in Early, there are few units that can stand up to them in a straight fight. And they get +1 Valour from Granada which makes them even more dangerous :duel:

Religious buildings increase moral. And I think higher moral helps to stop routing. ~:)

Thanks guys! ~;) It is too early to have my religious buildings built up, so
maybe that is the answer. I only have a couple of mosques built so far :embarassed: . My Nubians were being smashed by regular spears and
some kind of foot infantry ~:eek: . I've just made my first Ghazi infantry,
so the battles should improve some. I'm just not too familier with specialized
build orders for the Egyptians yet.

Hmm weird. I guess you are really in the Early game. I always used to build mosques and ribats wherever possible.

Then again as Egypt, I would go for about a 60-40 Cvalry-Infantry mix specially in North Africa early game. How about some Faris or Mamluk Cavalry ? IIRC you get Saharan Cavalry as well, pathetic morale but fast, so they can run away quickly. Those are good for chasing off the routers. It's not that easy to play with a lot of cav but charge disengage charge. Cavalry is effective against AUM but not in a prolonged melee unless AUMs are of low valor.

In any case forget the Euro faction style of Heavy infantry slugfests. With the Egys and Turks you need to be more mobile and do more hit and run, hit and run tactics with cavalry. Another idea is to armor up the Nubians and use them to pin enemy infatry while you ride in the back with cavalry. Build Saracen Infantry as soon as you can those are somewhat tougher than Nubians.

This thread might help you if you havent read it already:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31296

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Originally Posted by Sinan

This thread might help you if you havent read it already:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=31296

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Thanks for the link. I've read it, but it was before I even thought about
playing the Egyptians. It should help greatly, especially the build orders
and strategies ~;) . I think I am better at the smash-mouth tactics but
I need to learn/improve my hit and run fighting. I haven't been able to
build any Mamluk Cav yet, so I have a ways to go. Thanks again ~:cheers: .

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Originally Posted by dgfred

I think I am better at the smash-mouth tactics but
I need to learn/improve my hit and run fighting. I haven't been able to
build any Mamluk Cav yet, so I have a ways to go. Thanks again ~:cheers:.

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You can train Mamluk cav only in high and late era. But I recommend Ghulam cavs (charge 6, att 3, def 3).

Back to your original question, Egyptians shouldn't run away easier than any other faction. For your tactics against Almos, you can attack them with Saracen inf (equal as Chiv sergeants) from front and then with Ghazis from the flank. It worked for me many times. ~:cool:

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Originally Posted by Knight Templar

You can train Mamluk cav only in high and late era. But I recommend Ghulam cavs (charge 6, att 3, def 3).

Back to your original question, Egyptians shouldn't run away easier than any other faction. For your tactics against Almos, you can attack them with Saracen inf (equal as Chiv sergeants) from front and then with Ghazis from the flank. It worked for me many times. ~:cool:

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I think the religious buildings may be the answer to my moral problems.
I don't have any Saracen infantry yet and I've only just made my first
Ghazi in Arabia the last turn I played :bigcry: . I can make some Ghulam
cavs and Saracen(?) cav in Cynecia(sp) and in Sinai I can make some cavs
too. Do you guys ALWAYS knock out the Turks? I took Syria and Edessa,
but I'm not sure of continuing or not ~:confused: , I seem to like the idea of
giving the Byzantines something to pound on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Knight Templar

You can train Mamluk cav only in high and late era. But I recommend Ghulam cavs (charge 6, att 3, def 3).

Back to your original question, Egyptians shouldn't run away easier than any other faction. For your tactics against Almos, you can attack them with Saracen inf (equal as Chiv sergeants) from front and then with Ghazis from the flank. It worked for me many times. ~:cool:

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Very good points.

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Originally Posted by Sinan

Very good points.

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Thanks ~:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dgfred

I think the religious buildings may be the answer to my moral problems.
I don't have any Saracen infantry yet and I've only just made my first
Ghazi in Arabia the last turn I played . I can make some Ghulam
cavs and Saracen(?) cav in Cynecia(sp) and in Sinai I can make some cavs
too. Do you guys ALWAYS knock out the Turks? I took Syria and Edessa,
but I'm not sure of continuing or not , I seem to like the idea of
giving the Byzantines something to pound on.

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I think you should conquer all Turkish provinces. If you don't, they'll continue attacking you. Moreover, Rum is very rich province. You shouldn't let Byzs to take it. Later on, you'll have to go to war with them.

Make sure you get Saracen inf (you only need Spearmaker's Workshop) as quick as possible, IMO they're the best Egyptian inf in early period.

Thanks K T, I get to work on that spear workshop asap ~;) . I'll probably
smack the Turks again as soon as I get my 'house' in order. ~D

I have a suggestion for much later in the game. Nizaris are the infantry (IIRC) with the highest base attack rating in the game. But they have weak armor and defence. You should plan ahead and dedicate a province or two to producing these units WITH maximum armor upgrades. Once you are out of the desert areas they will be very useful against the Northern factions.

Nizaris dominate. One of my favourite units.

Everyone knows that Ghazis rock. I say forget about using spears, except for pinning cavalry. Ghazis will kill, and die, for you very quickly, but they are cheap as chips and have almost psychotic morale. Pump them out, and don't spare them. Get them in the thick of the action and combine valoured-up unit fragments after the battle.

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Originally Posted by Roark

Nizaris dominate. One of my favourite units.

Everyone knows that Ghazis rock. I say forget about using spears, except for pinning cavalry. Ghazis will kill, and die, for you very quickly, but they are cheap as chips and have almost psychotic morale. Pump them out, and don't spare them. Get them in the thick of the action and combine valoured-up unit fragments after the battle.

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This better describes my style of fighting ~;) . Now I know ~:cheers: .

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Originally Posted by Roark

Everyone knows that Ghazis rock. I say forget about using spears, except for pinning cavalry. Ghazis will kill, and die, for you very quickly, but they are cheap as chips and have almost psychotic morale. Pump them out, and don't spare them. Get them in the thick of the action and combine valoured-up unit fragments after the battle.

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Yep, be prepared for your Ghazis to die fast (they have very low defence and armour) but they will kill the enemy just as quick and they will almost never rout - I've often seen Ghazis die to the last man, and one of my all time favourite battles (against the Papacy) was saved by a single lone Ghazi around whom the shattered remnants of my army rallied.

The tip about combining the survivors is an excellent one, gives you uber-vet Ghazis ~:cool:

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Originally Posted by Roark

Get them in the thick of the action and combine valoured-up unit fragments after the battle.

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How can I combine unit fragments? ~:confused:

The best strategy for the eggies against the Almos is to super spam and win by numbers. I mean, the Almos have their main production in Cordoba. Dat's very far away.

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Originally Posted by Advo-san

How can I combine unit fragments? ~:confused:

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Please anyone... ~:)

On the strategy map:

-Click on an army
-Click and drag a unit on top of another unit with wish you wish to merge

There is also an auto merge option which I know of but I never used because I'd rather do it myself.

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Originally Posted by Sinan

On the strategy map:

-Click on an army
-Click and drag a unit on top of another unit with wish you wish to merge

There is also an auto merge option which I know of but I never used because I'd rather do it myself.

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Thank you My Lord :bow:

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Originally Posted by Advo-san

How can I combine unit fragments? ~:confused:

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Remember to turn off the "auto-tidy" option on the campaign screen - otherwise the computer will decide which units it will merge. Helps if you can pick and choose - combine the highest valor units together; use units that have generals with bad vices to fill up other units then disband the general (or use him to train an assassin/spy/inquisitor - I love to knock off generals with moral penalties), etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roark

Nizaris dominate. One of my favourite units.

Everyone knows that Ghazis rock. I say forget about using spears, except for pinning cavalry. Ghazis will kill, and die, for you very quickly, but they are cheap as chips and have almost psychotic morale. Pump them out, and don't spare them. Get them in the thick of the action and combine valoured-up unit fragments after the battle.

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Yep. Just train hordes of Ghazis, and you're well on your way to victory. Easily my favorite Egyptian unit; they're the ultimate kamikaze troops. ~D

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Originally Posted by Procrustes

Remember to turn off the "auto-tidy" option on the campaign screen - otherwise the computer will decide which units it will merge. Helps if you can pick and choose - combine the highest valor units together; use units that have generals with bad vices to fill up other units then disband the general (or use him to train an assassin/spy/inquisitor - I love to knock off generals with moral penalties), etc.

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Really usefull. Thanx! ~:)

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Originally Posted by Knight Templar

Thanks ~:)



I think you should conquer all Turkish provinces. If you don't, they'll continue attacking you. Moreover, Rum is very rich province. You shouldn't let Byzs to take it. Later on, you'll have to go to war with them.

Make sure you get Saracen inf (you only need Spearmaker's Workshop) as quick as possible, IMO they're the best Egyptian inf in early period.

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Yes, I agree w/ taking Rum...it's almost like having a second Constantinople minus the ship facilities! I'm still kicking myself for letting the Egyptians grabbing it first in my present game! :furious3: Oh, well, it looks like I will have to break another alliance in the near future. :evilgrin: