Elephants are probably the most decive units in the GAME!!! They will rout infantry faster than anything else. Yes they're expensive but, They are well worth the money. ~:)
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Elephants are probably the most decive units in the GAME!!! They will rout infantry faster than anything else. Yes they're expensive but, They are well worth the money. ~:)
Welcome to the Org Rome: Total Slayer ~:wave:
Yes elephants are very strong units as long as you keep them on the move, but just like other units there are counters for them. Fire arrows and javelins come to mind. Unfortunately in my campaigns I favour armies that don't use elephants.
:charge:
yes flaming arrows and javelns come to mind but as you said ther's a counter. when you charge the enemy in the open field hit the archers first. ~D then they will rout and wont shoot you. Javelins from roman infantry is not as effective as they make it out to be. Velites do next to nothing to a group of elephants that are charging them full throtle. or even marching! :cool3:
Tbh, i find mounted skirmishers such as Cavalry Auxilia/Milita Cavalry/Numidian Cavalry/Early Eastern Generals etc useful against elephants, as they are cheap to raise and upkeep. Elephants have no chance of catching them - instead you have to deploy light cavalry of your own to drive them off the field.
If you leave skirmish mode on, these javelin cav should always stay out of range of elephants and other units, whilst managing to get a few volleys into the target. Around 3 volleys should see elephants begin to fall, same goes with chariots. Problem is, these mounted skirmishers don't have much ammo, so you will need a few units of them to have any real effect on armoured targets.
I probably do something wrong, but I found that javelin cavalry on skirmish mode are always caught, and are destroyed within seconds, by chariots. Especially the Egyptian vanilla chariots come to mind :angry:
Concentrated arrow fire combined with spearmen/hoplites usually does the trick for me.
I can't remember meeting enemy elephants on the battlefield, but I do now that it's rather risky attacking archer-heavy armies with your elephants: soon the AI will concentrate its fire arrows on your poor elephants and they run amok before you know what's happening.
I remember once fighting a battle against the Romans (I played the Seleucids). I had two units of the strongest elephants (war elephants?) but unfortunately they had two units of heavy artillery. They soon targetted my elephants with those explosive fire rocks, and the first attack was a direct hit. My elephants ran amok, killing half of my army (didn't count the losses).
That hurt. A lot.
So now I am very cautious when I use elephants.
The RTR mod doesn't have onagers, but before I got it I didn't use onagers either- they're historicly anachronistical, not to mention obscenely effecitve.
I advise not to use the skirmish mode with jav cav. Skirmish works pretty well at times for horse and chariot archers, but at close range (jav range) the skirmish mode tends to do quirky things- such as getting stuck in an enemy unit and get themselves killed. Move them manuall instead, it maybe tricky but pracitice pays. Playing as Pontus should be a fine training ground, not to mention it's a unique experience.
On the topic of elephants: yes they're powerful, but also a liability, even moreso then chariots. The AI is actually smart enough to mass target the beasts with flaming arrows. Jav cav and to a lesser degree skirmishers are also nice counters, but the AI doesn't use them very well so as long as you stay on the alert for archers, you should be fine.
Yeah, chariots seem to outrun most things in vanilla RTW 1.2 - i find myself watching what AI chariots are doing rather than their inf and cav since their chariots could turn a battle if used against the right troops (and from the right angle). However, the AI tends to throw everything it has all at the same time, and either ends up routing (as in most cases) or actualy surviving and getting a rare victory. This usually means AI cavalry/elephants/chariots/generals/etc reach your troops first, probably die, then their infantry/archers/etc stagger into the melee near the end of a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky Lady
I know what you mean with skirmish mode, usually its best to leave it on if you're being chased by inf etc who don't have a chance of catching jav cav. I see them as cheap, one-shot weapons: if they bring down eles, it makes it easier to finish the rest/send them running amok. Perhaps bog down the remaining eles with peasants or other low cost units, while you take pot-shots with your missile troops.
Elephants are a must have in my opinion for Numidia in multiplayer. And they are as has been previously stated one of the most decisive units in the game. Pure excellence. :bow: :charge:
For all the strengths that Elephants possess, I have found out that they drop like flies when you get them to rout.
I use them myself alot, but I always make sure I have a cav unit following them.
A kind of one two punch combo. Charge with the elephants keep them movng in the same direction then follow in with a cav charge. I just punch a line right through the enemies lines.
Divide and Conquer
I don't like using elephants simply because they tend to run amok fairly easily, and at vital stages when I need them to be controlled.
Same reason Im not that big a fan of Scythed Chariots, wonderful though they are.
I agree with Garvanko on this, I've routed elephants with a combination of archers(used fire arrows) and Noble Archers (used Cantabrian Circle) in RTR and the Elephants went nuts on there own people.
Actually the Elephants goign nuts is a very important part of my strategy. Ivory trading is extremely important to my empire and by lulling every available elephant into the slaughterhou- I mean battlefield you can pick a up a pretty penny afterwards silling shoes and tusks.
Just thought it was worth mentioning.
:furious3: :furious3: :furious3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sargon
You stole my stategy :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:
~D ~D ~D ~:) ~;) ~:cool: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:
The best thing about elephants is for siege. Even late in a campaign game, barbarian factions still have wooden walls where elephants can break the doors.
An army without elephants moves. It comes to a town. It has to wait one full turn to build rams, unless it's lucky enough to have a spy open the gates.
An army with elephants comes to a town. The elephants knock down the gate and the rest of the army takes over the town, saving a full year.
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I use elephants as insurance in battles. I keep them behind the main firing line until and unless something breaks. Nothing stops a successful counter-attack by my enemy quite like a charge of elephants.
Elephants also provide wonderful fire support. While their missile attack is 10, the same as Persian cavalry, they have 60 arrows per unit compared to 40 for other cavalry archers. They don't have to worry about getting chased off by light cavalry, either.
The biggest worry for me is not peltasts or flaming arrows. The biggest worry seems to be getting my elephants trapped or surrounded. Elephants don't seem to like being cornered.
Agree with Doug on movement bonus when blitzing with elephants, however, I usually on train Armoured Elephants if I really need any. Heavy Cav is just as effective, move much quicker, and are less likely to rout after being targeted by missile troops..
I use Elephents as archers untill my HA weaken the enemys line and then charge. along with cav charging the rear most of the time the other army routs or is distroyed
Elephants?
even the "combined strategy " u mentioned can be turned back.
elephants ca n be amok or killed with:
incedary pigs,
reduce their morale with arrows
AND
with solid phalanxes ,especially the "macedonian phalanxes" -armed with sarissas -the huge spears -(phalanx pikemen,silver shilds,bronze shields)
so,if u put them one behind the other the elephants are killed and turn amok in the first charge.!
long live the phalanxes!
I think elephants are great. If they're not rampaging through enemy lines, they are a great platform for archers.
You do have to be able to use them well though. You have to time the impact of elephants knocking over enemies with your main battle line hitting their krippled one.
Also it's good for scaring the crap out of enemy cavalry (good for mainly cavalry armies such as Armenia, etc.)
I, myself have mastered the phalanx. In the time of RTW and RTR it would seem the phalanx is very primative, but if you master it, then it's not so bad. I'll need to get my firewall to allow me to play a multiplayer game. I'd be very interested in seeing my phalanx abilities against your elephant abilities. That would be a fun battle!~D
P.S: It's a little late, but welcome to the forums!
EDIT: Oh, and welcome to the forums Seleukos, and yes LONG LIVE THE PHALANX! (Do you really live in Greece? If so, PM me all about it)
Ay I too have learned to love the elephants.Nothing like beating rome and then going into Gaul and showing those good ol'gauls some nice African wildlife.~D
I thought flaming pigs pretty much shut down elephants, but I haven't had a chance to use them. Won't they make elephants panic and such ?
just not enough!
It's a shame not a lot of factions possess Elephants in BI :(
Mercenary War elephants are still available. And they seem to have an even bigger morale effect on the enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taurus
Where? I want some, as the Huns or Franks! LOL!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy
By the Sassinad capital Ctesphissdfgidrgmoetg (sp)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon
Ok...
Did you just type random stuff or is that an actual try at the Sassinad capital?
LOL, without a hardcopy map to refer to remembering all the new city names is getting to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon
He means Ctesiphon, a city near the eastern edge of the map, beyond the rivers Euphrates and Tigris.
Ok, thank you.