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How do I use these dudes? I assume I should park them off out of the way at the beginning of the battle and then used them to try and stab the enemy general in the back? Won't they just get slaughtered as soon as they get into action miles from the rest of my line? Or is that the idea - that they are suicide warriors?
They are a hide in plain sight unit, you can put them on a far flank to the front, withdraw your troops to a nice hill and let the enemy army walk by. When the battle starts they will be behind and to the flank of the enemy, choose the enemy general for a target and start shooting or just alt-click them for the charge.
mfberg
And don't forget to turn off "Fire At Will", or they're open fire prematurely and reveal themselves before you can spring the ambush.
But then the bulk of the enemy army will turn around and dice them, right? (I have no moral problem with sending them on a one way mission)
Errr, no. If the AI has any sense at all, it will not allow its entire force to be rear-charged by the full wieght of your main force. This is what it would get if all its units did an about face to take on a puny unit of 12 men.
There's the beauty of it. They're a small enough unit to be seen as unthreatening, yet capable of harrassing the enemy general in what should be a cosy and safe position at the rear of his army. He will either have to move out of range of their shots or charge into them personally.
He will then get a nasty shock if he does attack, as they have decent meleé capacity and a morale score of about 10, so they'll fight down to the last 2 or 3 men before they rout.
(If Hashishin are hiding in woods and cavalry stumbles into them, then the horses end up as so much dogfood. Careful though, dense trees block line of sight for all types of archers and can stop them from using missile fire. Place them at the treeline if it's shooting you actually wanted them to do.)
If he moves away then his zone of influence is shifted. The general gives a morale boost to his units within a certain distance of his location. One or other end of his front line can lose this boost if he gets too far away. Depending on how keen you are to hold rigidly to your defensive position and let them do the work, you can exploit this loss of morale boost by attacking the flank furthest from him.
As for suiciding them, I presume money is no object for your faction at the moment? Don't they cost around 500 for one unit?
Your best bet is to reserve them for picking on high-valour enemy units like generals and elite troops. If you manage to keep them alive, they'll accumulate valour like nobody's business. This will make them even more effective in meleé action. Every point of valour is another 2 points of morale too. Above valour 3 or 4, it also increases their missile fire accuracy, so they get deadlier and deadlier.
Yeah, I never use them, like Horse Archers or Artillery. They just never match my playing style. I would just rather use a whole unit of MAA or Billmen instead of just 1 cannon or HA. The only time I will EVER use artillery is if I get caught off guard and thats what I have or on a siege assault.
Even Hassassins, I just never use them right. They are either too far away to be effective when I use them or the enemy "stumbles" onto them.
While all of the above ideas are good ones, there's a better use for Hashishin.
First, not only do you have to turn off the fire-at-will function, you shold also set them to Engage-at-will. Hashies reveal themselves to the enemy if they move or shoot, and if set on fire-at-will and skirmish they will move and shoot automatically.
Remember that ambushing units get a nice bonus for a few seconds, and a charging unit gets a nice bonus, especially if charging in the flank or rear. Hashies, altho small have great stats.
So I say leave the Gen alone. The best use for these guys on defense is to figure out where the AI is going to attack you, and hide some Hashishin just off to the side and behind where you think the enemy force will be fighting you.
Then, as the AI engages you, you have a hidden, high valor, high stat unit to charge into the rear or flank of the enemy line.
Never let these guys fight cavalry headon if possible.
ichi :bow:
Historically assassination missions were all meant to be one-way. Assassins (derived from hashishin) were to murder a prominent leader in as public a place as possible, and were expected to die immediately afterwards at the hands of the victim's guards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty
Hmmm, mmm, put 960 men Hassashin in the Fortress with all the upgrades in Khazar that is 80 units of them and keep a warm welcome party to the Horde!!!
:evilgrin:
Can you manage to upgrade enough places by 1200 to be able to start the production at 2 years for each? Nice idea though...
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Originally Posted by Matty
Answer: You don't!
Has anyone ever seen the AI use them?
Actually you are right: that would be an overkill... :evilgrin: Just have 16-20 units of them in a fortress with upgrades and bye-bye Horde... (The Horde will always storm the castle upon emergence on next turn if the castle of the province is left occupied)Quote:
Originally Posted by Matty
The AI would probably make itself look spectacularly idiotic if it did use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToranagaSama
There was that time when I had two (maybe three) successive rebellions in Portugal, consisting entirely of up to 6 Hashishin and 3 Mangonels!!
I questioned the whole 'hide in plain sight' thing because I expected to have a battle whereby the enemy was invisible (mangonels aside) until at least the point where my general bought the farm. Instead, I could see them all from half a mile away and had relatively little problem in dispatching them.
This somewhat discoloured my view of their usefulness but still would like to give them a try.
The AI used them against me last night - and a rather unpleasant shock it was too, straight into the unguarded rear of my pavs after I'd inadvertently pancaked my allied muslim rebels in a furious point and click frenzy of chasing down enemy bowmen. And they absolutely creamed them.
I think I'll try the same thing - its just having the patience to leave them sitting way off and then when the right moment comes, slam into the rear of the enemy (as it were).
I've seen the AI use them a couple of times to great effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToranagaSama
I love 'em, personally. They're just like berserkers with bows, give or take a couple of stat points, except that they often get a tactical edge on the opponent, position-wise, because of their stealth capabilities.
I dunno, my experience is that if you ever stop paying attention the AI tends to get in some nasty tricks.
DA
You see?? You see???!! That post made no sense because I forgot to quote! THIS is why I need to be able to edit my posts!!
DA
I've tried them in a few custom battles. They work pretty well. I like a good HA unit better.
I know how not to use them...
saw some new players who had hashi's for generals online quite a few times.
Generals can't hide so they had visible hashi's for generals...
It is better than peasant generals though... :charge: Hate getting those (usually by bribe).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithrandir
Modded Hashishins to 20 men units myself. Huge improvement.
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Originally Posted by bretwalda
Can you even put more than 16 units in a fortress?
And if you could, where would your reinforcements come from when you defend in the siege battle?
Now thats an interesting question. I did not think about that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquis de Said
I thought there is a certain capacity of the castle, so smaller units fill it with more units than e.g. spearmen. I don't know about reinforcements...
What I did once was that I filled the maxxxed out Fortress in Khazar with Varangian Guards (16 units if I remember correctly). They hardly broke a sweat killing the Horde.
I extrapolated this experience with Hassassins - but I should think before writing :wink: