Deutsche Farbenlehre

Ok, it's election time in Germany. And what an odd election it is. Nobody seems to be really happy about it. Or has any clue whatsover about what the result will be. And all this when Germany is in dire need of reform.
The heart of Europe needs to get it's act together again. Like France, it's time for something new in Germany. But hopefully without discarding what's good about the old. I hope the Germans will show us the way into finding a workable balance that keeps our economies compatitive while managing to retain a humane social system.


It is clear that a coalition government will have to be formed. So, I'm curious, which colour combination would you prefer? Which one seems most likely to you?
Farbenlehre - in German, sorry.


Me, I'm naturally inclined to a Yellow - Red coalition. For reasons stated above, i.e. realistic reform but no ruthless discarding of the Rhineland Model. But the FDP and SPD are probably not going to win enough votes.

I'm not that interested in another Kohlesque Black - Yellow coalition ( CDU, FDP). Been there, done that, and reform not a return to old ways is what Germany needs.

I wouldn't mind an experimental 'stoplight' coalition. Red - Yellow - Green (SPD, FDP, 'Grünen'). Might be worth to give it a try.

I think we will see a Black - Red (CDU, SPD) coalition in the end. Which seems bizarre. Apart from the prospect of a first female chancellor I can't think of a good reason - apart from sheer necessity - why the two largest parties should govern together. In a combination like that, which nobody reallly wants anyway, both will be paying more attention towards gaining the upper hand and frustrating the other than towards actual governing.

I was gonna post that ~D


W00t for...er...
well, all their parties are exactly the same (unless they're outlawed) so W00T FOR ME!

VOTE FOR ME!

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Me, I'm naturally inclined to a Yellow - Red coalition. For reasons stated above, i.e. realistic reform but no ruthless discarding of the Rhineland Model. But the FDP and SPD are probably not going to win enough votes.

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Yellow - red? Are you serious? The modern FDP is a joke, apart from promising tax cuts of 5 billion € per citizen, they have no policy whatsoever. They´ve given up content and realism when Westerwelle became their figurehead.

Now, but that election is really messed. At the moment, no one knowes how it will end. Both red/green and black/yellow don´t seem to get enough and all of them are vehemently against a great coalition. So all is open, and it won´t be decided soon because 200,000 Ossies are voting in two weeks :dizzy2:
I voted red. With both votes, because the SPD should be as strong as possible. Merkel is a Bush-sycophant, Stoiber is far too right and Westerwelle is the caricature of a liberal. We have this election because the SPD did reforms that were good and necessary but not well liked by their clientel. hey´ve done the good things of a conservative policy without the bad things. And that´s why they are in danger to lose. That alone is a reason to vote for them.
Being realistic, I hope for a great coalition.

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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

I voted red.

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You're a German citizen?

Germany should elect the NPD (If that's the right acronym, i think it is lol), or the Deutsche Volkspartei. Get a good government, for once!

IG Farben?

Emmm, who are the yellow and black ? I'd guess green are the ecologists, red the communists and the other 2 the socialists and christian-democrats. Am I right ? What are the extreme right and Lafontaine's colors ?

yellow=FDP Free Democratic Party (Liberals)
black= CDU / CSU Christian Democratic Union (Conservatives)

extreme right would be brown, Lafontainte is also red.
In Berlin the coalition between SPD and PDS is called red-red.
:bow:

I'd go for a Yellow-Black coalition, or Black-Green.

@Louis the Fat
The "stoplight" coaltion is what has governed Germany for the last seven years, I don't think it will exactly be an experiment.

I would favor RED-BLACK

Majority for the SPD (my own Party anyway) and the three Minors so weak the CDU must play the Juniorpartner. Having Gerd as Chancellor and the Angie-Pseudo-Thatcher as... nothing.

Small explainations on german political Parties and Colors:

SPD - Socialdemocrathic Party (475.000 Members)

CDU - Christiandemocrathic Union (310.000 Members)

FDP - Indepandant Democrathic Party (170.000 Members / Note: Liberalism as a political Ideology did practically die out in Germany. The Party has never reached a result higher than 8%, so they are mostly irrelevant.)

Die Linke - The Left (80.000 Members / Note: The Left has been the Stalinist SED of the GDR until 1989. However after Harz IV they popped up to 12% and then back to 9%.)

Bündnis90/Die Grünen - Alliance90/Greens (50.000 Members)

Irrelevant Parties:

NPD - Nationaldemocrathic Party of Germany (5.000 Members / Note: Considers itself as NSDAP but is abolished to wear that Name. It is a mere Skinheadclub with no realistical political Options and as you might see far to few people to counter the democrathic Parties.)

DVU - German Peoples Union (10.000 Members / Note: It is also a Facist Party, but it diffrently to the NPD favors the Italian Model of Facism instead of the NSDAP-Variant and abolishes the Membership of Skinheads.)

Die Republikaner - The Republicans (3.000 Members / Note: REP was founded by former CDU-Hardliners inspired by the american Republicans as a Anti-Communist Party. It is extremely rightwing, but not Facist.)

MLPD - The Maoist-Leninist Party of Germany (1.200 Members / Note: The Party was created by former Members of The Left and Chinese Diplomaths, it is a Puppet of the Communist Party of the PR China and mostly an Instrument of Propaganda for Chinese TV)

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Germany should elect the NPD (If that's the right acronym, i think it is lol), or the Deutsche Volkspartei. Get a good government, for once!

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Apparently the NPD consists mostly of police informers.

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Originally Posted by King Henry V

The "stoplight" coaltion is what has governed Germany for the last seven years, I don't think it will exactly be an experiment.

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The last seven years has seen a red/green government, not stop-light. But it´s unlikely we will see such. Green and yellow hate each others guts.

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Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff

You're a German citizen?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker

Majority for the SPD (my own Party anyway) and the three Minors so weak the CDU must play the Juniorpartner. Having Gerd as Chancellor and the Angie-Pseudo-Thatcher as... nothing.

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Yep, I´d like that too.

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Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker

(...)

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Many thanks Stephan, lots of useful infos here. I'll finally understand the political situation in Germany :bow:

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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

Yellow - red? Are you serious? The modern FDP is a joke, apart from promising tax cuts of 5 billion € per citizen, they have no policy whatsoever. They´ve given up content and realism when Westerwelle became their figurehead.

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For reasons I don't quite understand, every German I speak to seems to loathe the FDP.

I don't have any close experience with the German parties, and especially things like personal style and such are difficult to keep up with from abroad. But I am naturally inclined to them, firstly, because they are a 'sister' party to the UDF in the ADLE, the 'Alliance for democrats and Liberals' in Europe.

And secondly, because whenever I read up on German politics, I seem to agree with them most. Allthough, I did this questionnaire on who to vote for in your election. I can't for the life of me find a link now. You had to answer thirthy questions, and the program would then give you a chart showing how close your opinions were to which political party. SPD came first, then the 'Greens' (damn) and the FDP only third. I'm really not supposed to be that left wing...

I have to add that I had to skip a full ten questions because the topic was of no relevance to me or because I simply couldn't understand the question due to my limited command of German.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

Germany should elect the NPD (If that's the right acronym, i think it is lol), or the Deutsche Volkspartei. Get a good government, for once!

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Nah. Germany tried NPD policy before - it was slighty short of a succes...

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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus

Apparently the NPD consists mostly of police informers.



The last seven years has seen a red/green government, not stop-light. But it´s unlikely we will see such. Green and yellow hate each others guts.



Yes.



Yep, I´d like that too.

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Reds and Greens suck. :balloon2:
Police informers rock! ~:cheers:

If you want to learn something about the political programs check http://www.wahlomat.de/bundestagswah...r3.wahlomat.de . However, it is German.

Kaiser, stop talking about these foolish fashist parties. Germans may be dumb. but not dumb enough to make a big mistake twice.

Stefan, I do not think that liberal ideas are dead. Every party is liberal either in a personal or economical view. But I agree, FDP is worthless.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

Liberal Christains running the Government?

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Not yet. Neither side has the majority at the moment.
Coalition talks are extremely difficult because neither
SPD+Greens nor CDU+FDP has the absolute majority necessary
to form a government. Neither side wants to speak with the PDS.
This means that the old coalition times are over.

Either the Greens or the FDP have to change their allegiance.
Or, more probable, CDU + SPD form a great coalition.

The funny thing is, CDU has more seats but can't do anything
without SPD. Schröder from SPD argues that the people voted
for him and thus he claims the office of chancellor.

~:cheers:

CDU and SPD would be an "interesting" result, assuming that it would be anything like a labour-tory coalition here.

Would they actually enter a coalition? If I were the CDU I think I would be more tempted to say we would support an SPD minority government on an issue by issue basis, rather than have a formal coalition. Power without responsibility. I would make it a condition that there was no green involvement, assuming, that is, that German greens have the same absurd politics that British greens do.

I think jumping into coalition with the party you have been attacking looks odd, and it would also mean they had one hand tied behind their back fighting the next election.

How did the CDU manage to lose BTW, I thought the polls were promising victory until quite recently?

Another qu: can you call another election when you want in Germany or do you now have to muddle through with this for four years, or whatever?

I think any government, in any country, can call to election at any given moment.

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Originally Posted by English assassin

I think jumping into coalition with the party you have been attacking looks odd, and it would also mean they had one hand tied behind their back fighting the next election.

How did the CDU manage to lose BTW, I thought the polls were promising victory until quite recently?

Another qu: can you call another election when you want in Germany or do you now have to muddle through with this for four years, or whatever?

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Assassin,
I'll try to answer your questions as good as possible.
I think that every political party has to be able to work with each other. Even if they do not like each other. That is democracy. The good old days with three political parties is over in Germany.

CDU did a very foolish campaign. Their candidate was not loved, they announced raising taxes. But the decisive mistake was to announce an professor from outside the party to become Financial Minister. People always believed that CDU was good with money. And now they had to present someone from outside. Further more there is a difference between the party program and the theory of that man. Nobody could really explain what that meant. So it was easy for the SPD to say that the CDU will cut money for all kinds of workers and is not social. And Schroeder did a great fight. He just refused to accept that he had no chance and finally people started to believe him.
I think if there is no majority in the parliament there will be new elections. But let's wait and see! Almost everything is possible. If a politician says he will never do certain things to get more power - who believes that?

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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat

And secondly, because whenever I read up on German politics, I seem to agree with them most. Allthough, I did this questionnaire on who to vote for in your election. I can't for the life of me find a link now. You had to answer thirthy questions, and the program would then give you a chart showing how close your opinions were to which political party. SPD came first, then the 'Greens' (damn) and the FDP only third. I'm really not supposed to be that left wing...

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Ignore the test. I did the same thing and the result was entire nonsense (FDP or DIE LINKE :dizzy2: )

I think the reason why the CDU got so bad a result is that elections and polls are not the same. As in the last election, a lot of people declared they will vote CDU but didn´t.

BTW, official result (but not final(!)):

CDU/CSU: 35.2
SPD: 34.3
FDP: 9.8
LINKE: 8.7
GREEN: 8.1
rest: 3.9

The Bundestag will have 613 seats, of which will go the parties:
CDU/CSU 225
SPD 222
FDP 61
LINKE 54
GREEN 51

problem: SPD says they don´t accept a coalition without Schröder as Chancellor. Although Merkel has more votes, she has a problem. Since other coalitions don´t seem possible, they have to agree somehow on a compromise.
Maybe one of both will trade in the office of Chancellor for other advantages like more ministers.
If not, this is what´s gonna happen:
The President will nominate one candidate for Chancellor. Then the Bundestag will vote and the candidate needs absolute majority of all members. Failing that, the members can nominate other candidates. Every candidate with more than 25% members nominating him or her will be voted upon. If one of those wins an absolute majority, he is Chancellor.
If this second trial fails again (no candidate gets an absolute majority) the members can simply vote for anyone and the one with the most votes may be declared Chancellor by the President. But if non of them has an absolute majority the President can also, alternatively, ask for new elections.

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I think any government, in any country, can call to election at any given moment.

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No, in fact not. Schröder could only ask for elections this year because the parliament has spoken out distrust for him. Schröder asked whether he has still the trust of the majority of the Bundestag and failed. After that, the President decided that new elections are in order. After that, the supreme court has decided that he may in fact do that (two members appealed).

why can spd/die linke/die grüne not form a coalition?

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

why can spd/die linke/die grüne not form a coalition?

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The SPD as well as the CDU/CSU have declared they will not negotiate with the Linke party.

There are beeing five diffrent models possible:

The "Große Koalition" -> SPD - CDU - CSU

Jamaica Coalation -> CDU - CSU - FDP - Bündnis90/Die Grünen

Trafficlight Coalation -> SPD - FDP - Bündnis90/Die Grünen

The unholy Coalation -> SPD - Die Linke.PDS - Bündnis90/Die Grünen

Black-Red-Gold -> CDU - CSU - SPD - FDP

1) Currently the only realisical possible formation.

2) Ideologically impossible: The Leftwingradical Greens could never join a Coalation with the right wing, rather they want to commit political sucide. Anyway having a Party that wanted Germany to intervene in the Iraqwar (CDU/CSU) and a Party that wants to legalise Marijuhana beeing in Alliance was mere nonsense.

3) Possible. The FDP is known for its many treasons of Partners.

4) "The Left" is the successor of the SED, useing the politics of the SPD ( Harz IV ) to radicalise the population. The Party is mostly opposed to the Constitution, with having Gregor Gysi as the political Head and proposeing the Movement of 15 Communists into their Parilament Faction.

Because of that, the Faction is boykotted by all others.

5) Black-Red-Gold exclude each other since it was even worse for the Parties to arrange their programmes than in the "Große Koalition".

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Originally Posted by Sjakihata

why can spd/die linke/die grüne not form a coalition?

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Because Schröder´s head would explode.

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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat

For reasons I don't quite understand, every German I speak to seems to loathe the FDP.

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Originally Posted by Stefan the Berserker

The FDP is known for its many treasons of Partners.

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~:handball:




I would rather call it a commendable ability to adapt to new political realities. ~:)

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Originally Posted by Franconicus

Kaiser, stop talking about these foolish fashist parties. Germans may be dumb. but not dumb enough to make a big mistake twice.

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They're better than Schroeder and his Neo-Stalinist policies.

Oh grow up. The concept of nazi tanks rolling through the plains of the Ukraine is about as relevant to present day German politics as shooting Indians is for American politics.

Kick us out Merkel, stop us or we will plunder Germany. ~D