We'll take it from here...

Talk about Intellectual Property theft...:furious3: Apparently, the EU was serious about getting into a war with the US. Your latest trick is demand that the United States turn over control of Internet master directories, even though it was our money and ingenuity that built the thing in the first place. With all due respect, who the hell do you guys think you are? I understand the arguments that you simply want to 'distribute addresses freely and fairly to all' and all that, but there are other ways of accomplishing that. If you folks really think the US is just going to turn over control of all the Internet master directories (at least with a Republican in the White House) you're off your rockers.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/30/D8CUKA481.html

Uh-oh! The EU is 'very firm' on this issue. Even more firm than on the Iran getting nukes issue? I'm quakin' in my boots.

Or at least I would be, if I weren't so mad the johnny-come-latelys now want a piece of the bread they had nothing to do with baking. Guess what? You may have socialist countries, but we aren't, so we aren't gonna share!:furious3:
[/rant]

Crazed Rabbit

Don, first i agree with you, and it's not all countries in europe that belong to the EU.

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Talk about Intellectual Property theft...:furious3: Apparently, the EU was serious about getting into a war with the US. Your latest trick is demand that the United States turn over control of Internet master directories, even though it was our money and ingenuity that built the thing in the first place. With all due respect, who the hell do you guys think you are? I understand the arguments that you simply want to 'distribute addresses freely and fairly to all' and all that, but there are other ways of accomplishing that. If you folks really think the US is just going to turn over control of all the Internet master directories (at least with a Republican in the White House) you're off your rockers.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/30/D8CUKA481.html

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Speaking of property theft...
Apparently, the US was serious about getting into a war with the EU. One of America's tricks is demanding that the European powers give up their claim on Antartica, even though it was our money and ingenuity that discovered the thing in the first place. With all due respect, who the hell do you guys think you are? I understand the arguments that you simply want to ensure that 'Antarctica shall continue for ever to be used exclusively for peaceful purposes and shall not become the scene or object of international discord' and all that, but there are other ways of accomplishing that. If you folks really think Europe is just going to turn over control of all of Antarctica by Treaty to limit it's use to the advancement of science for the benefit of the whole of humanity, then...you're right. We have done just that.

Are you saying we wrested control of Antartica from the EU? I don't see how the two are apples to apples. Then again, don't know much about Antartica's history other than the quick skim of the wikipedia entry for it I just took.

Let the baby have it's bottle. :snobby:


PS: I like how you refer to europeans as folks. LOL!

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Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit

Or at least I would be, if I weren't so mad the johnny-come-latelys now want a piece of the bread they had nothing to do with baking.

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You do realise that the world wide web was created by Tim Berners-Lee, who is British, at CERN, in Switzerland (which is, of course, in Europe [not EU].

The internet is a world wide resource. I have not seen a single convincing argument for one country controlling such an important resource.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus

You do realise that the world wide web was created by Tim Berners-Lee, who is British, at CERN, in Switzerland (which is, of course, in Europe [not EU].

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No way. Everybody knows Al Gore invented the internet.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Are you saying we wrested control of Antartica from the EU?

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No. Just that the nations that opened up Antarctica for the world have 'frozen' (pun intended) their claims on it by international treaty.

I don't feel like losing my freespeech online, thank you.

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Originally Posted by Proletariat

Are you saying we wrested control of Antartica from the EU? I don't see how the two are apples to apples. Then again, don't know much about Antartica's history other than the quick skim of the wikipedia entry for it I just took.

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Everybody knows that Antartica is actually ruled by short, overweight men in tuxedos...oh...wait a minute. Those are penguins. Never mind. I guess the anti-terror alliance against sea lions will be moved to the back burner now that this is out in the open. Hmmm...we really could use a penguin smiley about now.

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Originally Posted by Red Harvest

...we really could use a penguin smiley about now.

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http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/...es/penguin.gif

(No dice, huh?)

I thought some Swiss guys made the internet...

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You do realise that the world wide web was created by Tim Berners-Lee, who is British, at CERN, in Switzerland (which is, of course, in Europe [not EU].

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Well, I was close. ~;)

T'was made by DARPA just in case you guys aren't joking and referring to Demons And Angels. It was first called ARPANET I believe and was made to link US military systems, that makes it a decidedly American invention.


EDIT: I thought it was first called DARPANET, checked a wiki article and it said ARPANET, I've heard that as well, since my memory is fallible I'm changed it to ARPANET.

I think the title of this thread should be renamed since it is actually a very good topic.


I have a suggestion for the EU:






Make your own.

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Originally Posted by Louis IV the Fat

Speaking of property theft...
Apparently, the US was serious about getting into a war with the EU. One of America's tricks is demanding that the European powers give up their claim on Antartica, even though it was our money and ingenuity that discovered the thing in the first place.

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And ours.~D

I believe there will be an alternative Internet in the future. The current development with more and more governmental control will create more and more private networks to keep all those paranoid agents out of our lives......

Oh please I hope not. I like the NET being one of the few unregulated places of the world. If we involve government and private property in his spaces and domains, and we control the info I think I'll puke.

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Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

T'was made by DARPA just in case you guys aren't joking and referring to Demons And Angels. It was first called ARPANET I believe and was made to link US military systems, that makes it a decidedly American invention.


EDIT: I thought it was first called DARPANET, checked a wiki article and it said ARPANET, I've heard that as well, since my memory is fallible I'm changed it to ARPANET.

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The www was created at CERN. The creation of what later become the internet is American.

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Originally Posted by Ironside

The www was created at CERN. The creation of what later become the interent is American.

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Amen!



Now on the main subject, I do believe that the Internet and the WWW should be under International Control. If the US wants to keep control over the net it is fine by me, maybe all firms who have suffered damaged from an internet related attack can press charges and claim their losses from Uncle Sam ~;)

What makes you think that a UN body would run the internet responsibly? Having it under US control might not be fair, but it may be the best option for everybody involved.

DA

Hmmm I thought that bit in Angels and Demons was made up. Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

I don't feel like losing my freespeech online, thank you.

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How would that happen? It's not like freedom of speech has been lost to non-Americans on the net.

Anyway, can't see any harm in the current situation, far as I can tell it works fine. A change of ownership hardly seem necessary.

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Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin

T'was made by DARPA just in case you guys aren't joking and referring to Demons And Angels. It was first called ARPANET I believe and was made to link US military systems, that makes it a decidedly American invention.


EDIT: I thought it was first called DARPANET, checked a wiki article and it said ARPANET, I've heard that as well, since my memory is fallible I'm changed it to ARPANET.

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The internet was created in America, and the worldwideweb, http etc. was created in Europe. Both groups helped the creation of the internet we now use. So my point is that no one group can claim that they alone created the modern internet. Therefore no one country can claim that they should control the internet. Since it is a world, resource, its control shold be in the hands of a world organisation.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

During the 1950s, several communications researchers realized that there was a need to allow general communication between users of various computers and communications networks. This led to research into decentralized networks, queuing theory, and packet switching. The subsequent creation of ARPANET in the United States in turn catalyzed a wave of technical developments that made it the basis for the development of the Internet.

The first TCP/IP wide area network was operational in 1984 when the United States' National Science Foundation (NSF) constructed a university network backbone that would later become the NSFNet. It was then followed by the opening of the network to commercial interests in 1995. Important seperate networks that have successfully entered the Internet include Usenet, Bitnet and the various commercial and educational X.25 networks such as Compuserve and JANET.

The collective network gained a public face in the 1990s. In August 1991 Tim Berners-Lee publicized his new World Wide Web project, two years after he had begun creating HTML, HTTP and the first few web pages at CERN in Switzerland. In 1993 the Mosaic web browser version 1.0 was released, and by late 1994 there was growing public interest in the previously academic/technical Internet. By 1996 the word "Internet" was common public currency, but it referred almost entirely to the World Wide Web.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus

The internet was created in America, and the worldwideweb, http etc. was created in Europe. Both groups helped the creation of the internet we now use. So my point is that no one group can claim that they alone created the modern internet. Therefore no one country can claim that they should control the internet. Since it is a world, resource, its control shold be in the hands of a world organisation.

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Look, just to be clear, what CERN created was a protocol Hyper Text Markup Protocol- it allows for the creation and display of web pages. It's not the Internet or anything close- it's something that runs over or thru the Internet and has nothing to do with it's structure or addressing, ect.

That's like Blizzard saying "Hey, we created BattleNET- we own the Internet too." Well, not exactly, but you get the idea.~D I had the priviledge of using the Internet for a few years before the WWW took off and the prevalence of HTML certainly makes it easier for most people to use, but don't confuse it with the Internet itself.

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Originally Posted by Marcellus

The internet was created in America, and the worldwideweb, http etc. was created in Europe. Both groups helped the creation of the internet we now use. So my point is that no one group can claim that they alone created the modern internet. Therefore no one country can claim that they should control the internet. Since it is a world, resource, its control shold be in the hands of a world organisation.

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Oh yeah.......Come try and take take it! :charge:

Louis,
I don't know the first thing about America forcing European countries to relinquish titular claims to Antartica. I'm afraid I'm rather ignorant there. But at the very least, we said 'nobody' owned it, we didn't force you to give control to us, which is the case here.

The WWW is not the Internet. You guys are showing your age when you express a belief that the 2 terms are equivalent. HTML is a protocol/programming language that allows a certain type of application to be run over the Internet. But CERN didn't do it in a vaccuum, the University of Illinois (courtesy of Mosaic) put a lot of effort in too, as well as others.

But the hardware layer and the network layer are all DARPA. The addressing system, the address servers, we invented it all. The WWW is just the most popular internet application right now, but there's also: FTP, Gopher, email, Instant Messaging and the rest.

What's more, I find it amazing that you guys are so insistent on taking it over. Thus far, the American government has pretty much left the Internet alone. With the exception of solving some child pornography and molestation cases, they have allowed the Internet to be whatever it wants. It's the EU that's saying that somebody needs to step in and start controlling what gets said. With talk like that, trust me, you're not going to be invited to share control. We must protect European Values, says Commissioner...While I agree with the Comissioner on the point of child pornography (and it's already illegal for that matter, police bust people for it all the time) the whole talk of banning hate speech on the Internet sounds scary. Essentially, whatever the ruling party in the EU doesn't like will become hate speech. Hell, I bet anything said by a Republican will automatically qualify as hate speech and be banned. Nope, not going that route...

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Originally Posted by The article

"As AOL has demonstrated over a number of years, it is in our commercial interests to be a responsible self-regulating service provider," it said.

Yahoo! Europe said the online environment was no Wild West as companies have worked together with national governments to tackle problems such as child porn.

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My ass. Are they responsible when they censor chinese dissidents to get a bit more cash ?

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Originally Posted by Kapo

I don't feel like losing my freespeech online, thank you.

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Come on. If Muslim extremists' sites are closed, I don't see why we couldn't close christian extremists' site, or KKK/neo nazis' sites.

Actually, the US DOES issue domain addresses to sites that advocate the destruction of the US. The only thing we do is if a group is stupid enough to post on a website that they were responsible for a crime in the real world, we might use the information we have on who they are to go investegate them. But that would be for the terrorism itself, not the hate speech against the US. There's hundreds of websites that call for violence against the US, some of which are run from within the US itself.

I would prefer if the EU kept its hands off the internet.

I guess there is enough stuff already for our functionaries to keep themselves busy with - no need to create another playground for them ~;)

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Some countries have been frustrated that the United States and European countries that got on the Internet first gobbled up most of the available addresses required for computers to connect, leaving developing nations with a limited supply to share.

They also want greater assurance that as they come to rely on the Internet more for governmental and other services, their plans won't get derailed by some future U.S. policy.

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I really dont see the point in who invented what. Today the internet is an important worldwide asset and the infrastructure to build it up is hardly done by US alone is it? As it will only grow more important in the future for both trade, information and communication it will be of outmost importance that it runs smooth without any potiential interference from just one nation.

Just imagine if one nation had the control of all powergrids and could shut it down whenever it wanted. Doesnt mean it would do it, but you can hardly blame other nations wanting some control too.


CBR