Post-BI Imperial Campaign v1.3

I appreciate we're all playing the new BI campaign now (well, I certainly am!) :duel: but what do we know about the effects of the update of the Imperial Campaign (original RTW) from 1.2 to 1.3? There is ZERO documentation on the CD or install directory that I can find dealing with this.

Is the load/save bug fixed? Is the horse archer bug fixed? Is the "feature" where non-Roman factions have to wait for the Roman-initiated Marian reforms to get their upgraded generals gone?

It would be great if CA would release a v1.3 readme detailing the changes like they did for 1.2. If they have, I apologise to them and ask that someone point me to where I can find it.

Best read Kraxis's first impressions thread (yes, it's long but it is all good stuff). Save/load and horse archer bugs seemed fixed. I suspect the non-Romans still need to wait for Marius though.

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa82

It would be great if CA would release a v1.3 readme detailing the changes like they did for 1.2. If they have, I apologise to them and ask that someone point me to where I can find it.

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I have a feeling they are going to be adding some things to the "1.3" patch before they release it. :)

It's not out yet, but I bet you that when the standalone patch is released, it will have a readme. I dunno if they will be able to get away with "Download this patch! Never mind what it does exactly... just do it. Wink wink." They will have to at least list stuff that they changed in order to convince a lot of people to download it. At least I hope!

Hi there

On a side note how did you play RTW after installing BI? I know you have to put your RTW disc back in but it will not let me play anything but the prologue. I checked the preference file and First Time Play is False.

Thanks in advance.

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Originally Posted by YAKOBU

Hi there

On a side note how did you play RTW after installing BI? I know you have to put your RTW disc back in but it will not let me play anything but the prologue. I checked the preference file and First Time Play is False.

Thanks in advance.

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Well now. That's alarming. I haven't tried RTW after then new install, but will do so posthaste.

For those who are interested, with the 1.3 patch you can now use process_cq, add_money 40000, and create_units cheats unlimited number of times in vanilla RTW.

Hello again ~:wave:

Sorry I found out the answer to my question at the weekend. If you are having trouble playing RTW after the BI expansion then uninstall both RTW and BI. Then reinstall RTW then BI and you are ready to go again.

:charge:

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Originally Posted by YAKOBU

Hi there

On a side note how did you play RTW after installing BI? I know you have to put your RTW disc back in but it will not let me play anything but the prologue. I checked the preference file and First Time Play is False.

Thanks in advance.

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Maybe you did a fresh install and have to start the prologue again?

EDIT: Try it and nevermind the pref-file, it may have been altered?

Thanks Magraev, but I had commented further before your post ~:cheers:

heh oh well good for you then ~:)

where can i download 1.3v dammit...can someone please link me

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Originally Posted by The Stranger

where can i download 1.3v dammit...can someone please link me

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It's not out as the standalone version yet -I read somewhere it's due on Friday - I think they're waiting until BI has had global release before making it available.

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa82

what do we know about the effects of the update of the Imperial Campaign (original RTW) from 1.2 to 1.3?

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The battles are better, the AI doesn't break sieges after a reload, AI generals combine with armies and the AI seems to be doing well combining small stacks to form larger armies.

In my Julii (M/M) campaign, by 215 BC Egypt and Brutii are as strong as Julii. Brutii has eliminated Macedon, Pontus eliminated Armenia, Egypt eliminated Selucia, Jullii eliminated Gaul, and Greece Spain and Parthis are just about eliminated. Britannia has taken cities from Germania and Dacia and is expanding. Scipii, Scythia, Thrace, Dacia, Numidia, Carthage, Pontus are medium strength but not expanding. Scipii took Sicily early, but then stopped expanding. I think this is all about the same as it was in RTW v1.2, but the rebel cities are eliminated fairly quickly and retaken if they re-emerge since sieges are not broken. There are only 3 rebel cities on the land accessible map in 215 BC and 3 rebel controlled islands (Crete, Rhodes and Hibernia).

Gaul offered me a ceasefire if I gave back one of their cities. I accepted, and on the same turn Gaul attacked me at a different place on the map. I guess news of the ceasefire hadn't arrived yet.

SPQR was allied with Britannia, and when I, as Julii, attacked Britannia, SPQR broke their alliance with me and gave me a warning. On the next turn, SPQR declared war on Britannia and I got a senate mission to blockade a Britannian city. An enemy SPQR agent was found spying in one of my cities on the same turn. I'm not at war with SPRQ. Scipii and Brutii declared war on Britannia and have remained allied with me throughout all this.

To me the RTW v1.3 diplomacy seems very similar to the RTW v1.2 diplomacy, but I'm not a diplomacy expert as I generally ignore diplomacy.

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

Gaul offered me a ceasefire if I gave back one of their cities. I accepted, and on the same turn Gaul attacked me at a different place on the map. I guess news of the ceasefire hadn't arrived yet.
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Thats just the Gauls being themselves.

Cool Yuuki, so you're actually playing the 1.3 Imperial Campaign! One of the things that puzzled me was that in the descr_sm_factions text file there's a code line "prefers_naval_invasions" which is either "yes" or "no" for each faction.

Now, this is selected as "yes" for the Saxons in BI and yet none of the factions in RTW 1.3 have the same. Assuming this line actually has some effect on the AI, one might have argued that this should be "yes" for the Scipii faction and also potentially Carthage, Numidia and possibly Brutii...

Any ideas if this would make a difference?

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Originally Posted by Puzz3D

In my Julii (M/M) campaign, by 215 BC Egypt and Brutii are as strong as Julii.

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My gosh - that was fast. That's in 1.3 and a fresh campaign? Are you autoresolving all the time or do you just have a lot more time to play than me?

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Originally Posted by Uriel

My gosh - that was fast. That's in 1.3 and a fresh campaign? Are you autoresolving all the time or do you just have a lot more time to play than me?

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I autoresolve battles against rebels, but play all the others. I may have put in as much as 30 hours in this campaign in the past 7 days. I would estimate I fight between 1 and 1.5 battles per hour of play not counting autoresolved battles. My total record, which includes naval battles, is 60 wins and 19 losses, at difficulty level M/M. Right now I control 18 provinces with 49,000 denari income, 46,000 expenses and 30,000 in the bank. I got the Marian reforms in 221 BC.

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Originally Posted by Jambo

One of the things that puzzled me was that in the descr_sm_factions text file there's a code line "prefers_naval_invasions" which is either "yes" or "no" for each faction.

Now, this is selected as "yes" for the Saxons in BI and yet none of the factions in RTW 1.3 have the same. Assuming this line actually has some effect on the AI, one might have argued that this should be "yes" for the Scipii faction and also potentially Carthage, Numidia and possibly Brutii...

Any ideas if this would make a difference?

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I'm playing with fog of war off so I can see the whole map. Scippi might have used sea transport to help take Sicily, but I'm not sure. They did have some troops on ships after taking Sicily, but I don't know what happened to those troops. After taking Sicily, Scippi just built up 5 full stacks at Capua, and around 240 BC it moved one of these full armies all the way up to just north west of the city Vicus Venedae which is owned by Germainia. They then subsequently moved another small stack to the same spot, and there both armies have stayed. Scippi is at war with Carthage, Spain (probably due to naval contact), Britannia (in sympathy with Julii), Thrace (in sympathy with Julii who recently attacked Byzantium) and against the Rebels.

Brutii attacked Appolonia in 266 BC, and I believe that was by sea. After taking that city, they fought Greece for a while, and then went after Macedon who they defeated. I saw Brutii troops on ships during this time. I had a mission to take Bylazora (owned by Macedon) during this time which helped Brutii.

Carthage took Scallabis and Cartho Nova from Spain, but has done nothing else, and they have lost Cordoba to a rebellion.

Unlike the descr_strat file, descr_sm_factions is moddable during a campaign (i.e. effects of modding are instantaneous and don't require a new campaign).

Puzz, I wonder if you could change Scipii to "prefer_naval_invasions" "yes" in this file and see of that has any marked difference on their apparent stagnation on Sicily.

It might be this is indeed the reason, as in all my imperial campaigns I've never witnessed Carthage taking on Spain and apparently winning. It's true that this could be because Scipii have left them alone in N Africa, but Carthage is also labelled as "no" for "prefer_naval_invasions"...

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Originally Posted by Jambo

Unlike the descr_strat file, descr_sm_factions is moddable during a campaign (i.e. effects of modding are instantaneous and don't require a new campaign).

Puzz, I wonder if you could change Scipii to "prefer_naval_invasions" "yes" in this file and see of that has any marked difference on their apparent stagnation on Sicily.

It might be this is indeed the reason, as in all my imperial campaigns I've never witnessed Carthage taking on Spain and apparently winning. It's true that this could be because Scipii have left them alone in N Africa, but Carthage is also labelled as "no" for "prefer_naval_invasions"...

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Ok I'll try that, but it will have to wait until tonight after work. I have a savegame from 255 BC shortly after Scipii took Sicily where they have two stacks and two ships at Capua. There are already 3 units on one of the ships. I'll start from there.

Also of note is the new diplomatic content at the bottom of the descr_strat file which details the "core attitudes" of the factions to one another and the "faction relationships" (mainly just in relation to slave).

It's possible that the "core attitudes" for the Roman factions haven't been made hostile enough to provoke the early war with their most likely targets, i.e. Julii and Gaul, Scipii and Carthage/Greece, Brutii and Macedon/Greece...

?

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Originally Posted by Jambo

It's possible that the "core attitudes" for the Roman factions haven't been made hostile enough to provoke the early war with their most likely targets, i.e. Julii and Gaul, Scipii and Carthage/Greece, Brutii and Macedon/Greece...?

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Well I controlled Julii, but Scipii did go right after Greece and Carthage in Sicily, and Brutii was sieging rebel owned Appolonia in 266BC, and went to war with Greece right after taking it and later against Macedon who they eliminated. Britannia went after Germania, Egypt after Selucia and Parthia, Pontus after Armenia, Macedon after Greece, Carthage after Spain. Thrace and Scythia allied. Numidia and Carthage don't seem to be fighting. The AI faction expansions that have occured have been pretty slow and methodical. Except for Brutii, Egypt and Julii (myself) factions do not have large armies, but they all seem to spend all of their money. In 215 BC, I have basically a 10 faction game not counting SPQR since Parthia, Spain and Greece are about to go under and Macedon, Armenia and Gaul are already eliminated. I'm now at war with Carthage, Britannia and Thrace. I don't feel threatened, but I can't quite maintain 3 full armies dedicated to offensive operations either because of the ecomomics. At this point with 49,000 income and 46,000 expenditures, I don't have any offensive armies in the field.

Macedon made quite a few ships but are eliminated now, and Spanish had quite a few earlier but they are down to one city now. Carthage has a few. The AI has been pretty aggressive about attacking what few ships I did send out. I failed to complete about half of the senate missions because I haven't tried to gain naval superiority.

It seems to me that there is a proximity distance beyond which AI factions don't act aggressively even against factions with which they are at war. For instance, Scipii is at war with Britannia and Thrace because I'm at war with those two factions, but Scipii isn't taking any action against them at all, and i think it's because they are not in close proximity to those factions. It's unclear why Scippi moved a full army way up north away from the factions with which it is at war.

Interesting..

Ive modified the descr_sm_factions file in my Pontic campaign, and made the Scipii, Greeks, Carthaginians and Egyptians all prefer naval invasions. I'll also post my thoughts on any new developments.

Did a bit of experimenting myself playing as Julii and just ending turns. The naval transport AI is definitely a bit screwy in RTW 1.3. The Scipii could take Sicily but would go no further, and the Brutii wouldn't even leave Italy, not even to take the rebel settlement of Apollonia...

This is definiely different from 1.2.

I've tried the "prefer_naval_invasion" setting and that didn't appear to make any difference when set to "yes" for the Brutii and Scipii. The only thing I can think of now is to try altering the "core attitude" values at the end of the descr_strat file to see if the Roman factions can be encouraged to be more pro-active in their conquests...

I am definitely of the opinion that the Roman AI is bugged in RTW 1.3. After consecutive Julii campaigns doing very little other than ending my turns, the Scipii and Brutii simply cannot get to grips with naval transport/invasions. Brutii don't land and take Apollonia and Scipii don't do anything more than taking Sicily.

Same here. My Pontic campaign has been going on for 20 years. Brutii still in Italy, Scipii still in Sicily. No expansion whatsoever. Even after modding.

Gauls, Greeks, Dacia are all expanding. In the case of the Gauls, its almost unbelievable how fast, given their ecenomy.

In my unmodded Julii campaign, Brutii did make the jump to Appolonia before 266 BC and expanded after that becoming very strong by 215 BC, but Scipii only took Sicily. I made the change to Scipii to prefer naval invasions, and reloaded my 255 BC savegame. Scipii has already captured all of Sicily in 255 BC, has two ships with 3 units of troops on one of them, and two nearly full armies at Capua. For 5 turns, the ships went back and forth alternately between Messina and Capua, but the troops were never unloaded I suppose because they weren't needed on Sicily. After 5 turns a Macedonian ship passed through the area, and the Scipii ships stopped moving after that for the next 5 turns which brought the game to 250 BC where I stopped testing.

The problem appears to be related to naval transport for the Roman factions:

THe majority of the time, the AI Brutii's armies on the Italian homeland just get on and off their boats repeatedly without the boat actually moving anywhere productive, i.e. Apollonia. It's almost as if the order which the units should be moving is wrong, i.e. the units are leaving the boat before the boat has had a chance to move to Apollonia, or something like that.

One poster over at the .COM managed to break this cycle with a save /reload once which sparked the Brutii into taking Apollonia and therefore into action. Nevertheless, I would say it's definitely not a deliberate design decision as the behaviour of loading ships seems correct. The AI factions are simply not transporting them to the desired locations.

It's clear from Puzz's game that he got lucky and the Brutii did managed to break their cycle of loading and disembarking armies turn after turn on the Italian penninsula. In the 5 tester campaigns where I ran 20+ turns as Julii, the Brutii managed to land on Apollonia once and this was many years down the line once Gaul and Greece were fairly well established. In each of the other occasions, they simply followed this bizarre loading one turn, disembarking the next, without progression from the Italian penninsula.

Scipii never seem to be able to get into North Africa, however, and didn't manage this on any of the testing occasions.

Here's the similar thread at .COM:

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...ID=30203.topic

Well I must say I'm flummoxed. And pleasantly surprised.

Decided to start a new campaign as the Brutii just to see what would happen, and sure enough the Scipii and Julii sat there and sulked. It became so bad that relations between the two deteriorated and they BROKE their Alliance in 260BC!

Is it just me, or is that a major bug?? :book:

Moreover, the Greeks landed at Croton after I took Athens and Sparta - I had modded the descr_sm file, and made them 'prefer naval invasions.' Sure enough they invaded Italy. That was in 259BC. :dizzy2:

Gaul is expanding like theyve won the lottery and have already taken Salona. True to form, they broke the Alliance I had with them...

Bugged?

No real idea. One thing for sure is the Roman AI expands at a much slower rate, Julii included. Maybe it's been planned that way by CA, a deliberate design decision to slow them down and allow the other factions like Carthage, etc, to establish themselves?!

If given long enough, e.g. 200 BC, do the Romans eventually expand?

I remember hearing something about new units for the original RTW after BI, but when I went to play the original after installing the expansion, I didn't see anything new. Are there going to be any new units?