Impressive Hun battle

In my now rather advanced ERE campaign I have taken Campus Iazegus from the Goths (I wanted to create another case of Horde-sickness, and hoped that they would drive into the WRE as I was at war with them). Anyway, the city was attacked for many years by Huns and my vast and impressive army was in the end nothing more than a bunch of cattledrivers. I needed to save the city from the Huns.

So I sent my most powerful army yet, to drive them off. I felt it was most impressive with plenty of Plumbatarii and a fair number of cavalry.

The battle came on a plain with hills to either side of me. I chose to make a stand in the valley (moving under fire from the Huns was simply stupid). Initially the Huns acted odd, the first army (of two) was sitting on the bigger hill to my left and began to move erratically. Meanwhile the other army moved up along the ridge to my front and the hill to my right. I dawned upon me that I was being duped... The first Hun army was reluctant to engage me while it slowly crept around my left flank, meanwhile the other Hun army swung around the right flank. Soon my situation was like this.
Looking left.
https://img251.imageshack.us/img251/...kers0163jk.jpg

Looking right, take notice of the units in the distance to the right (they would later be important).
https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/27...kers0178ir.jpg

My flank, protected by my Hippo-toxotai and mercs began to shrink inwards was the superior numbers of fast Hun horse archers kep up the pressure and advanced further and further in a slow motion. But already it was clear my right was the choice of attack. Unit after unit began to converge on me (didn't dare to move), then they attacked. Several going for my front, obviously not going to win due to the strength of Plumbatarii and their plumbata. I would be wrong if I thought the AI actually had a concept of divertionary attacks (or could one hope?). But whatever the reason, those attacks kept me from moving enough troops around to decisively coutner the Huns.

https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/...kers0216it.jpg

The careful obsever will notice that I sent my only strong reserve into the fray, the poor Septimius Aemilianus, who is now dead. He did manage along with my Equites Auxilia to rout several Hun units but he was eventually overwhelmed.

The battle carried on, and in time even the Plumbatarii ran out of ammo to throw at the enemy. And my Hippo-toxotai were cornered and wiped out. I had lost my most maneuverable and strong forces. I had only my remaining Alan Nobles (strong heavy cavalry, responsible for several routs as they rode across my front), the general and the Merc Sarmatian Archers, but the two merc units were in for some trouble. In the next shot you will se the result of the Huns breaking my wings and getting around to the rear, cutting off the mercs.

https://img255.imageshack.us/img255/...kers0221fr.jpg

The Sarmatians are driving at the four advancing Hunnic units. The result was a bloody fight that would have gone to the Sarmatians had they not been so severely outnumbered. Meanwhile the Alans are engaged with the three units of Hun Horde Horsemen (large, 66, units of horse archers) coming from the far right, that fight they lost. I have been forced into an defensive octagon.

At the time I lost my last remaining cavalry I tought the battle was lost. I had done well, but by men were beginning to crack, my priests were abou the only thing that kept them going (little bunch of black men in the center).
The Huns came closer and close with their horse archers, inflicting losses on the opposite units (shooting across the formation). It was devastating.
Once in a while they got too close to the units that still had ranged weapons, but they simply pulled back and began the maneuver again.

When the three Hunnic units on my right began a Cantabrian Circle each my wall was breaking down, so I gave it one last shot. I attacked those three with my valiant general. They fell back naturally, but luckily they kept shooting at my infantry until out of range. After a few volleys I struck luck. While fleeing the last unit (I had targeted the first) began to move slightly to my side. I took the chance and attacked it. Before they could retreat away my general had engaged their rearmost men, this promted that units to halt and engage my men in a brutal fight. My 16 men then faced even worse odds as the two other units turned around to help their buddies. 16 bodyguards against 150+ enemies. Just before the two other units managed to engage me the first unit broke, but that didn't halt them and I thought the end had come when my men began to drop quickly while one othe Hun units were still only slowly dropping, but then the other unit broke (my men had apparently engaged them instead), this sent the first unit flying as well.

For some reason the ret of the Hunnic army also retreated after a unit had managed to get tangled up in my octagon.

It was a victory, but my army was depleted, and I am most impressed with how the AI acted during the whole battle. Competent and sound tactics. They should have worked against my initial line, but I constantly reformed and never budged. It was not so far from what I would have done myself.

Envelopment with horse archers is also pretty much exactly what I would have done. I wonder if a working skirmish function with HA makes it easier for the AI to handle these units.

The fact that they fire at the most vulnerable unit instead of the closest one is good, too.

You would have won that battle easily in R:TW.

Very nice

.......Orda

I'm impressed by the tactics. If it were me playing, I think I would have lost that battle... If the AI is decent and challenging, then I am sure the campaigns will improve my ability before I start getting beaten on MP.

To clarify on my earlier post: The AI did roughly what I would have done. That's what I meant by encircling with HA.

I'd like to point out that this battle support's your view, Kraxis, that archery has been softened considerably. If you'd been surrounded by that many HA in RTW, nothing would have saved you.

Chalk one up for the AI. You can't say that hte AI fought well everyday.

The AI did suffer horrendous losses on my right flank initially, so that drained its operational strength quite considerably. But that was mostly Chosen and Herdsmen, not HA.

The AI was also clever to deal with my own HA first as it was in general a good deal stronger in melee, and it protected my rear and flank. Without it I was forced to play Carrhae.

These battles are of course not what I experience every time. Mostly I still see small skirmishes or engagements near settlements (that is where my armies are, damned unrest), and at times it is downright foolish. But battles like this were extremely rare in vanialla RTW... I don't think there was a single second in that battle where I didn't smile (ok when poor Secundus died I was a bit furious as he was supposed to be a new governor).

Man, it's like I knew threads like this would be started with people who were really excited about the game.... but I never expected them to actually sway me to begin to crave the game myself! If someone relates a pleasurable MP experience I may just start salivating enough to purchase it.

Guess I'll have to be a bit more careful in BI than I tended to be in RTW.

BTW anyone know if having a pike line as a sort of safe jumping off point for cavalry attacks still works? To explain more fully, having a line of pikemen that will be able to protect your missile units and hopefully hold the line if your cavalry is destroyed. Then having a fairly large amount of elite cavalry go out and flank the enemy/frontal charge when necessary to actually destroy the enemy army. In RTR 5.4.1 I was able to do this with Pontus to an extreme degree, never really used the pikes, sometimes 2 generals and a unit of Pontic Heavies could take a full (fairly competent) stack. I probably won't use it anyway, just wondering.

Well, it will work to keep you safe from defeat now. But given the strength of the spearmen against cavalry and their ability to withstand the charge I would not think it is possible anymore.

Also, the AI will be more observant towards cohesion and addressing flanking units if it can.

Ah, very good, thanks. I was mostly using it against phalanx heavy armies (Egypt, Greeks) so it will hopefully not work anymore, at least not without much heavier losses. Good luck with your campaign!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colovion

Man, it's like I knew threads like this would be started with people who were really excited about the game.... but I never expected them to actually sway me to begin to crave the game myself! If someone relates a pleasurable MP experience I may just start salivating enough to purchase it.

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First report I have about MP is indeed favourable, Colovion. It seems infantry stand a long time and melee lasts quite a while longer. Cavalry is no longer over powered. I would advise you to get it, the Eastern army choice is much better than any before ~;)

......Orda