Flanking question

What is the best way to order your troops to flank? Let's say you've got two units, one behind the other, and the front one is engaging and want to order the other to flank. What is the best combination of keystrokes to get them to not interfere with your other unit, get them to the side of the enemy units, and have them face perpendicularly? If you rotate/wheel, is it possible to combine that with other commands in a shift (or is it ctrl?) queue?

While we're at it: Is there a way to search just this forum?

Thanks.

you just send them around and then order them to charge...i never used those button in battle...most definitly not when attacking.

and i dont understand your last question

no, you could howevr just browse all the pages of the forum...
And well any RTW question you tpe in the search bar will probably direct you to the Colosseum , or RTW guides.

:balloon2:

What do you mean "just send them around?" That's exactly what I'm asking.

With cavalry:

1. Pick a unit that can use wedge formation.

2. Before the battle, deploy the cavalry in a line as long as you want.

3. Hit the "special function" hotkey (F). The cavalry is now deployed in a wedge. When it unravels, though, it will unravel into the long line you prefer.

4. Start the battle. The front unit engages. Run the wedge cavalry past the flank. Once in postion, turn off wedge, then order a charge, preferably into the back rather than the side.

With infantry:

Don't put one behind the other. Put the second infantry unit off to the side with a little distance.

If your infantry can withstand a charge to its front and hold out so long that another infantry unit can march past, turn and deploy, then it's in no danger anyway.

Does anyone actually split their infantry units up into groups or use one big line?
Does anyone keep re-enforcements back?
Does anyone bother to flank?
Does anyone use thier General to try to route the enemy?
Does anyone try to lure cavalry into the line of spears?
or does everyone just walk up to the enemy with archer units and shoot them to bits when the just stand there. (Well pre BI anyways)~;)

Nah. I just lured the general out into alone with his bodyguard, killed him and watched the rest of the army rout.

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Does anyone actually split their infantry units up into groups or use one big line?
Does anyone keep re-enforcements back?
Does anyone bother to flank?
Does anyone use thier General to try to route the enemy?
Does anyone try to lure cavalry into the line of spears?
or does everyone just walk up to the enemy with archer units and shoot them to bits when the just stand there. (Well pre BI anyways)~;)

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Both
Yes
Yes
Yes when necessary
Yes, no.

OK. We've had our fun, but the serious answer to mgdpublic's question is: Lay an ambush. This is not easily done.

What we'd all like to do is have infantry in a column, run out o the side, make a "left face" or "right face" turn, and charge.

No, there is no easy way to do that. The easiest would be to do the old "drag and drop," but that's not really practical on a confused battlefield. You're trying to drag the cursor over units.

The best way to do it, really, is to find a weak unit or gap in the enemy line and bust through. Then break off the pursuit and charge something else in the flank or from behind.

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Does anyone actually split their infantry units up into groups or use one big line?
Does anyone keep re-enforcements back?
Does anyone bother to flank?
Does anyone use thier General to try to route the enemy?
Does anyone try to lure cavalry into the line of spears?
or does everyone just walk up to the enemy with archer units and shoot them to bits when the just stand there. (Well pre BI anyways)~;)

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1) Depends on the army and the battle. I use many different formations depending on the circumstances, though one long solid battle line of infantry accounts for probably about 50-60% of my attacks.
2) Not in RTW, but with the improved BI AI always. At least one cavalry unit to deal with enemy flankers and sometimes up to a full second line of infantry in equal size if the situation is serious.
3) Always, unless they are heavily outnumbered and poor quality.
4) Yes, regularly though carefully. I prefer to take the occassional general death in exchange for the use of an excellent cavalry unit and positive trait gains for the general. The only time I will absolutely keep my general out of the fight is when I am fighting a battle that will be long and where morale breaks could pose a serious problem for me.
5) I sometimes lure cavalry to spears, though I prefer other methods. My preference is to entice them into charging a deep-ranked unit of any kind and then pinning them with a flank cavalry charge of my own.

If you have a unit of infantry behind another - say swordsmen behind spears - you can get the swordsmen into the enemy´s flank by dragging them to a line so that they face the flank of the enemy. Command them to run if you fear your spears won´t hold long enough. Make sure that you leave enough distance between the line and the enemy to prevent your unit from engaging while moving to the position.

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Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

What we'd all like to do is have infantry in a column, run out o the side, make a "left face" or "right face" turn, and charge.

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Yea this is more like what I'm asking. For instance, if you had the layout I described and moved the second unit to the right of the enemy unit but not perpendicular (rotated), would you even get a flanking bonus?

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

Does anyone actually split their infantry units up into groups or use one big line?
Does anyone keep re-enforcements back?
Does anyone bother to flank?
Does anyone use thier General to try to route the enemy?
Does anyone try to lure cavalry into the line of spears?
or does everyone just walk up to the enemy with archer units and shoot them to bits when the just stand there. (Well pre BI anyways)~;)

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1. Not usually. Infantry keep marching in a line. I select individual units as and when..
2. Nope. You can never say no to re-inforcements. They must engage.
3. Of course. Especially against uber-strong infantry.
4. Yes, almost always, but usually as part of a larger cavalry charge.
5. Infantry, in this case spearmen, are there to engage forward threats. If that means Cav, then all the better.

Archers are set on FAW, until they become a danger to my own units. Then they skirmish. Or rout. ~:)

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Originally Posted by mgdpublic

Yea this is more like what I'm asking. For instance, if you had the layout I described and moved the second unit to the right of the enemy unit but not perpendicular (rotated), would you even get a flanking bonus?

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Some, but not much. Only the few units at the end that was actually in contact would get the bonus. Now, there would be a bonus as your unit closed in and wrapped around, but it would take a while.

Flanking bonus...

There is and there is not one of these...

The only "bonus" flanking or attacking from the rear gives you is an instant but temporary drop in the attacked units morale. If this does not break that unit it does not make much different...

For the actual fighting troops attacking from the flank or rear do not receive an abstract bonus. In fact the game is deep enough that the individual soldiers are easier to hit when attacked from the rear (no defense or shield bonus) and can't hit back until they turn around (I think). Your "bonus" comes from the reality that attacking from the rear is more effective and damages the enemies morale...

If you charge from the side you don't drop the enemies morale as much but any troops that wrap around the back will be pretty effective.

Hold down the shift key and give them waypoints.

You also can't flank the new horde spear formation that has no front or back, you know the round ones ~:cool:
I've broken one before but lost the battle as one still remained and had no arrows left. Anyone know the best tactics for these i.e Surround with heavy infantry and charge?

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Originally Posted by rebelscum

You also can't flank the new horde spear formation that has no front or back, you know the round ones ~:cool:
I've broken one before but lost the battle as one still remained and had no arrows left. Anyone know the best tactics for these i.e Surround with heavy infantry and charge?

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Shower them with missiles of any kind. Cavalry against this is an absolute no-no unless they are very low on morale and/or you don't mind losing the unit. Otherwise, charge with as many heavy infantry as you can from as many directions as possible. Fortunately, these formations are only usually encountered when the spear unit is isolated, so you can often take you time and surround them fully before they charge. This formation takes some time to get into as well, so a hasty charge when you see it begin to form can disrupt it.

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Originally Posted by oaty

Hold down the shift key and give them waypoints.

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Waypoints are ok when getting from A to B. The problem is that when a unit comes to waypoint it doesn´t immidiately go on to the next one, it stops and then moves on. So a running unit will: run-stop-run-stop-etc. Due to this annoying feat it makes the use of waypoints during battle a waste of time and quite frustrating IMO.

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Originally Posted by mgdpublic

What do you mean "just send them around?" That's exactly what I'm asking.

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sorry misunderstood your question...but i think its answered alreade

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Originally Posted by TinCow

Shower them with missiles of any kind. Cavalry against this is an absolute no-no unless they are very low on morale and/or you don't mind losing the unit. Otherwise, charge with as many heavy infantry as you can from as many directions as possible. Fortunately, these formations are only usually encountered when the spear unit is isolated, so you can often take you time and surround them fully before they charge. This formation takes some time to get into as well, so a hasty charge when you see it begin to form can disrupt it.

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Charge/Withdraw/Charge again, perhaps? The formation either has to watch you do that repeatedly, or countercharge itself — breaking the formation.

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Originally Posted by Doug-Thompson

Charge/Withdraw/Charge again, perhaps? The formation either has to watch you do that repeatedly, or countercharge itself — breaking the formation.

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My current campaign has the battle timer off (convenient addition btw) and I have watched a few spear circles sit solid for up to 20 minutes at a time while I mopped up other routers and then surrounded them. I suspect that if the AI is defending, it won't move from that formation unless it thinks it has the advantage. This would never happen to isolated units, so maybe it would be best to rout these units first in a battle.

My personal opinion is that if you can't use missiles on them and you can't break their morale quickly, you're going to have to deal with high casualties.