Spanish Square

Sound familiar to anyone? I know I’m digging back to my high school history but I remember a mixed formation of Arquebusiers and spear-type troops in a square formation. This formation allowed the guns to engage the enemy while the spears defended the gunners. When I tried to create this formation in a custom battle using loose formation (to hopefully eliminate squeeze penalty) I was unable to create the formation. Even orderly, formed troops on loose formation aren’t in a solid line and the spacing between rows is uneven. If one row will fit in a space ultimately others won’t. This is frustrating because even though the projected (space bar) formation is perfectly straight the result isn’t. So far the best use I’ve found for them is that cavalry LOVE charging after them in the line allowing an easy flank and rear attack while my expensive gunners are cut down. I’ve looked at the spreadsheets but couldn’t find an answer there. Why can the AI consistently bunch up units while I’m unable to create a similar formation?

Can you put two units on the top of each other at all?

It can work the old way: gunmen front, pikes in the rear and when the enemy charge gun skirmish back while pikes run forward.

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Originally Posted by bretwalda

Can you put two units on the top of each other at all?

It can work the old way: gunmen front, pikes in the rear and when the enemy charge gun skirmish back while pikes run forward.

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I've done something similar with my offensive formation. Pavaise whatever in loose formation out front of my spears on loose formation. If cavalry charge I can easily move the pavaise back and tighten the spears when they pass. I would need to put the pikes on loose formation and hope they’d close up in time to receive the charge but with the short range of the guns I don’t think there’d be enough time for them to retreat back. It would take too long if they’re both on close formation and that’s especially important for the guns. Units can stack when they’re attacking something like on a bridge but can’t do it when standing. But I guess I’ll have to use your suggestion and hope they don’t get shot up by archers or run down by horses.

It might work if you ran them forward, pikes and guns in loose formation, then halted the guns in the middle of the pikes?

I don't understand why you want to bunch up units, but as far as the formation you are describing it sounds a lot like the one called (I think) the English Square in MTW/VI. I use it quite a bit when I'm defending - it arranges your heavy infantry in front with your missiles behind in a three-sided square. It's perfect if you can put it around a small wooded area or at the top of a small hill. On defense you can tweak the position of the units all you want.

Hope this helps,

I'm surprised that even the AI doesnt' aim for the corners.

This sounds a bit out of our period or at least at the very end. The formation was called a Tercio and was a block of pikes, 4 blocks of arquebuses - one in each corner and often a couple of other units such as sword and buckler men or light guns. This was the basis of the Spanish army in the 1500's. The concept was that it was like a castle. The pikes were strong - about 1000 men and armoured. The shot units were about 200 strong and were in each corner of the pike unit, like turrets on a castle. The sword and buckler men were about 200 strong and were meant for attacking the flanks of opposing pike blocks. The light guns do not really have a unit like it in MTW, as they were manhandleable and moved with the infantry. The unit evolved into the pike and shot units of the Thirty Years war and English Civil war of the 1600's mainly by arquebuses becoming muskets, pike numbers becoming less and proportion of shot becoming higher. A typical unit would be 200 pike and 2 units of 200 muskets, one on each flank of the pikes. A salvo from the Swedish muskets in the 30 year's war would stop an armoured cavalry charge dead in its tracks.
All this sort of change and the range of different armies across Europe and the Middle east all shows how great a Renaisance Total war would be. Throw in religious conflict, Islam, devious deplomacy and it would be a great game. SPI had a great 6 player board game called "A Mighty Fortress" many years ago, the highlight of which was when Protestant missionaries faced up to the Jesuits in Theological debate with the loser being burnt at the stake!! So come on Creative Assembly, how about it??~:cheers:

I really don’t want to bunch up my units and get the crowding effect which is why I want them on loose formation. The point is to give the guns better defense as they deliver their morale destroying damage which won’t make me so dependent on flanking cavalry. I already have effective offense and defensive formations I use but I would like more as they both depend on the stupidity of the AI.

Handgunners, unlike many other gunpowder infantry, have enough morale to take most cavalry charges, especially if set three ranks (or more) deep. At three ranks, they "ripple fire" quite quickly, keeping the enemy fearful. And they actually have a positive attack factor, so can deal out some damage in melee.
I've fought a couple of campaigns where I used hangun-heavy armies - all my melee infantry were handguns. They'd get close, fire a volley, and charge in - it worked surprizingly well, considering they're such an under-rated unit.

Handgunners are absolute killers online. Give em 2 valour and some armour (or just 3 valour), shove them in hold/hold and they are potential battle-winners.

No Late era army should go without them.

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Originally Posted by Geezer57

Handgunners, unlike many other gunpowder infantry, have enough morale to take most cavalry charges, especially if set three ranks (or more) deep. At three ranks, they "ripple fire" quite quickly, keeping the enemy fearful. And they actually have a positive attack factor, so can deal out some damage in melee.
I've fought a couple of campaigns where I used hangun-heavy armies - all my melee infantry were handguns. They'd get close, fire a volley, and charge in - it worked surprizingly well, considering they're such an under-rated unit.

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They seem to take a little extra micro managing but are effective. ~:)

Hand Gunner have gunpowder shock bonus and swords. You can break weakened units quite easily with them.

Good info; I wish this game was more modable so I could create new formations like this, as well as curved formations and a few other gems I'd like to crack ~D .

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Originally Posted by yesdachi

They seem to take a little extra micro managing but are effective. ~:)

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Your right. Sure, you can also win by slamming some super units, like high valour JHI, head on into the melee. But anyone can do that. If a unit is not easy to handle, it isn't used. Those people often underestimate short range missile unit, that is, until they meet someone who can~;). So please, learn to use them. Winning this way will feel much, much more rewarding.