I Hate Egypt (in the game)

This is hardly news, but yet again I've rekindled my passion for hating the Egyptian faction in RTW. A couple of recent things have pushed me over the brink.

After BI came out I wanted to see if any of the AI improvements/changes had carried over to RTW. So I started a Brutii campaign. Then I thought that it might be a good idea to make a special expedition to destroy Egypt early in the game, so I wouldn't have to deal with them later. I was looking forward to actually fighting the Parthians or Seleucids in Asia Minor, instead of always always always seeing Egypt take over that corner of the world. So I sent 2 family members and a stack of soldiers to the Nile. They managed to sack Alexandria, but got surrounded by some Egyptian armies. Of course, one of those armies attacked my weaker family member -- the guy who just had a couple mercenary units in his stack. It was a stackful of Egyptian peasants, so I figured I'd try my luck (H/H). When I got to the battle, I found there was no retreat, and my merc units were terrified by the large number of enemy. My general died under a swarm of half-naked dudes with pitchforks and I was mad, but I figured no big deal, I've still got my OTHER army to work with.

You probably know what's coming. I did NOT have that other army. Because we were surrounded and standing right next to each other, there was no way for this "real" army to retreat when the crappy merc army lost the fight. So without actually *fighting*, I lost that entire army.

Needless to say, that was the end of that campaign. But I figured that horrible quirk has nothing to do with the Egyptians in particular; I'll just try again.

So I tried again, this time with the Scipii. Spent some time conquering Sicily so I could get a decent economy and then built up an army to send to the Nile. However, before I even arrived at my destination I received word that the Seleucids AND the Parthians had already been destroyed. This is in the first 30 or 40 turns of the game! Angrily I rampaged through Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes; exterminating the population and pulling down all the buildings. Then I moved up to Sidon, giving that place a similar treatment, and then to Antioch.

My army is currently holed up in Antioch, and I've come to the realization that my path of destruction has actually probably hurt the Egyptians very little. Because I can't stick around for very long and fight endless battles with my single army, I have to leave cities pretty quickly. That means the city reverts to th Egyptians, and they get a stack of the Golden Super Peasants From Hell. So despite a short-term squeeze, they probably don't notice a difference in their economy at all.

It just seems ridiculous. I'd like to play this game and know that I'm going to face some interesting enemies in the East, not just desert axemen and nile spearmen. Parthia should be the big force over there, not Egypt. So my thought the other day was, why not get rid of Egypt altogether through modding?

Any thoughts on this? Is there a place where I can give all the Egyptian provinces to rebels so they die out at the beginning of the game? Has anyone done anything like this? I can honestly say that I will never miss them. I don't ever care to fight a battle against Egyptian chariots. I don't ever want to see another campaign where the same 2 factions are wiped out before they even get a chance. And I don't ever want to play as the Egyptians, ever ever ever. Just point me to the files and folders I need to make this happen, and I'll attack them in the only place that'll make a difference.

:help:
CountMRVHS

"You probably know what's coming. I did NOT have that other army. Because we were surrounded and standing right next to each other, there was no way for this "real" army to retreat when the crappy merc army lost the fight. So without actually *fighting*, I lost that entire army."

Oh, that still happens? I thought they'd fixed that with 1.2.

That is the *dumbest* game mechanic, and I'm saying that as nicely as I can...

Yeah, Egypt kicks ass in the East and yeah it's dull and boring.

Now we can mod factions' diplomatic relations with each other at the start of the campaign, there are several ways to improve the situation. These include making Egypt's relations with the Seleucids more favourable and less hostile in the descr_strat file. One could also make Parthia and Seleucids more favouable with each other and more unfavourable against Egypt so they're more likely to jointly take on Egypt. Likewise, Pontus is actually quite often the faction that really cause the Seleucids the most trouble. That can be reworked too.

I think it would be worth a try to mod the general unit of the egyptians to normal cav. (Weren't\Aren't they overpowered in auto-calc\ai vs ai battles?) And as jambo said above me here, modding the relations of the factions.

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I can honestly say that I will never miss them. I don't ever care to fight a battle against Egyptian chariots. I don't ever want to see another campaign where the same 2 factions are wiped out before they even get a chance. And I don't ever want to play as the Egyptians, ever ever ever. Just point me to the files and folders I need to make this happen, and I'll attack them in the only place that'll make a difference

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amen!!!

If there is one faction I have never played nor ever will, it's Egypt,

EVen in RTR , I didn't play them , not once, and in RTR they were a whole new faction...

I have never , ever seen SE silver shield infantry , in a campaign , nor any decent Parthian army, which is a shame.
SInce those factions are way more interresting than Egypt.

:balloon2:

Mod the desc_strat file to give Egypt -1000000 denarii at the start of the campaign. This should give the Seleucids some sort of head start.

Ugh, Egypt. Yes, I really do hate them in this game too.
I have just finished a long Scipii campaign with the Mundus Magnus mod (so RTW 1.2), and there Egypt was a superpower too.
Around 230 bc I started a war agains Egypt, and this was their empire at that time:

https://img467.imageshack.us/img467/...ap230bc8na.jpg

It was 190 bc before I conquered their last province (yes I am a veeerrrrryyy slow player). I know it sounds ridiculous but I really smiled (no I almost cried of joy) when I got the "Faction eliminated" screen. I even saved a screenshot to caress the moment, lol.
This is a screenshot from the turn before I conquered their last town-with-family-members (in present-day Arabia), so the two African provinces (conquered by me but sacked and abandoned so full with "Golden peasants from hell") turned rebel:

https://img358.imageshack.us/img358/...ap185bc7mb.jpg

Anyway, I decided to attack them from two fronts. First only in the Libyan deserts, but after 10 years or so I launched an attack in Minor Asia too. But they kept on sending army (often full stacks) after army in that game. Only when my Northern Army reached Jerusalem and my Southern Army conquered the Nile Delta, they showed their weakness for the first time by bringing peasants to the battlefield. I swear that I didn't see any peasants until the final phase.
I also trained a few "uber-assassins" and waited for the family members to leave their towns and march up to their stacks to kill them. But even then I couldn't "contain" the Egyptians.

I must admit that I tweaked down the stats for their :furious3: chariots a little (did that somewhere mid-game), so I thought that maybe increasing the recruitment and upkeep cost too would be a good way to tune down their superpowers a little? Don't know if anyone tried this yet?
On the other hand, they provide a "challenge" :wink:

Strange, in my latest campaign, pontus conquered the whole of the middle east, so i dont see what the problem is.

Same here. Pontus killed Egypt in my game. Nevertheless, I might try a short campaign with Egypt again.

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You probably know what's coming. I did NOT have that other army. Because we were surrounded and standing right next to each other, there was no way for this "real" army to retreat when the crappy merc army lost the fight. So without actually *fighting*, I lost that entire army.

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If they were standing next to that army, why didn´t they come as reinforcements?

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Originally Posted by Crusader4thepeople

Strange, in my latest campaign, pontus conquered the whole of the middle east, so i dont see what the problem is.

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Are you guys playing 1.3? It hasn't worked on my computer so far, so I'm talking about experiences with 1.2, where they were almost always the superpower of the east.

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I like corn. ~:)
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I may have gotten the "Reinforcements Delayed?" tile at the beginning of the battle, basically preventing them from ever showing up. I understand that happens from time to time, but the fact that they were *destroyed* seemed like a slap in the face. If you know me at all, you know I'm one of those "masochistic" players, who usually looks forward to -- relishes, even! -- the thought of getting my face slapped by the AI. But this seemed like a dirty trick.

Tricky Lady -- you should put up that Faction Destroyed screenshot. Might be cathartic for some of us ~D .

I may try the -100000000 denarii approach first, as that would be easier; but I get the suspicion that the AI would just "cheat" anyway. I swear I've seen them magically produce several units in one turn as I approach their cities.

At any rate, good to know I'm not alone; seems I've touched a nerve here! Thank God there are no Egyptians in BI. Yeah, the Sassanids always seem to do well, but they don't.... bother .... me as much.

CountMRVHS

I never destroy Egypt in my easterling campagins. Especially as the Seleucids. I leave them with one city, Dumantha usually, and make them my protectorate. You know just to rub it in.

I hate protectorates, they're a risky business. I'm still not sure if they're able to break out of it any time they want? They should all be killed, they deserve it, just for being so annoying. :evil:

I've modded the game to give all non-Roman factions their upgraded generals' bodyguards from the beginning (a workaround for the Marius-dependent upgrade problem). This also has the happy side-effect of denying Egypt any free chariots. The result seems to be that, while still powerful, they are not the ludicrous superpower they once were. No more small Egyptian forces defeating full-stack Seleucid armies at least. As far as I know 1.3 also nerfed the Desert Axemen somewhat, which has probably helped.

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Originally Posted by CountMRVHS

Tricky Lady -- you should put up that Faction Destroyed screenshot. Might be cathartic for some of us ~D .

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Yeah why not?

:skull:

https://img479.imageshack.us/img479/4555/00778gg.jpg

:evilgrin:

~:cheers: ~D ~:cheers:

:balloon2:

Egypt, the one faction everyone loves to hate.
The main concern with Egypt is the amount of settlements that are buffed up (a few start with stone walls), and many of them are cashcows (though not as bad as the Greek islands). When I play as Numidia, I try to expand to the NW toward Spain. I'd rather take my chances with barbaric Gauls than buff Egyptians.
On the other hand, when I have had a bad day at work and need to unwind, Egypt is the best faction for me to play with for the very same reason. I dont need my stress levels elevated any more than needed, so playing an overpowered faction and zergrushing anything that stands in my way is a good way of venting a lot of steam. :gring:

What about the positives..

They have terrific units. Desert Axemen, Desert Cav, Pharoah's Guards and Bowmen etc etc. And they're not even the best. Rather than give them a financial disadvantage, why not give the Seleucids 100000 denarii from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by CountMRVHS

I may have gotten the "Reinforcements Delayed?" tile at the beginning of the battle, basically preventing them from ever showing up. I understand that happens from time to time, but the fact that they were *destroyed* seemed like a slap in the face. If you know me at all, you know I'm one of those "masochistic" players, who usually looks forward to -- relishes, even! -- the thought of getting my face slapped by the AI. But this seemed like a dirty trick.

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In the future, you could prevent this from happening by changing the necessary line in the preferences. I never get delay anymore. Of course, your machine needs to be strong enough, or you might get a slideshow.

[QUOTE=Tricky Lady]Yeah why not?


Two questions Tricky Lady,

How does one bring up a "Screen Shot?"

and,

How does one bring up a "Faction Destroyed" message from the past?

Thank You.

Strength and Honor,

Celt Centurion

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Originally Posted by Celt Centurion

Two questions Tricky Lady,

How does one bring up a "Screen Shot?"

and,

How does one bring up a "Faction Destroyed" message from the past?

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1) very easy, just hit "PrintScreen" (usually on top right of your keyboard) and the game will save a TGA-file in your RTW\TGAs folder. You can open TGA files with photo-editing programmes such as PaintShop Pro, Photoshop. There is a freeware programme that can open these files too, but I can't remember its name right now. I found a couple of freeware titles that support TGA over here, at snapfiles.com

2) you can't. I was so happy to see this screen that I immediately took a screenshot. Yes, that's sad, I know. :shame:

I don't get it. So they were next to each other, and one army lose then the other automatically loses?

And what's reinforcement delayed?

Well, part of the issue was that my 2 armies were *completely* surrounded by Egyptian stacks. So I couldn't withdraw from the battle anyway.

Basically, I had 2 generals, each leading a "stack". The problem was, I had one strong army and one weak army: the weak army consisted of my general and maybe 4 merc units: numidian jav and some camels. The strong army, of course, had a bunch of hastati and a much more balanced force (I was very early in the game, so I don't think I could even train principes yet). When the AI attacked, it attacked my WEAK army (smart move actually). On the pre-battle screen, I think it said my other army would show up as reinforcements. I chose to have them AI-controlled because they'd show up all at once & I'd just have to delay with my crappy army until they got there.

So the battle starts up and I set up my puny forces. Now, probably what happened (can't really remember) is that I probably got a message right at the beginning of the battle that said "Reinforcements Delayed?" -- it basically means that your reinforcements won't be showing up after all.

So I was trapped with my general and 4 merc units, facing an army of the Golden Peasants from Hell with no reinforcements. This was before I really respected the Golden Peasants from Hell, so I figured I might be able to win the battle anyway (this was H/H, large unit sizes). Boy, was I wrong. My camel archers didn't even hardly touch them, and the rest of my units were so scared by being so outnumbered. My general died in a headon charge into pitchforks.

When I returned to the campaign map, I noticed that my OTHER army, the strong one, was gone too. So, somehow, the mechanics are such that..... well, you get the idea. To frustrating to talk about anymore...

CountMRVHS

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Originally Posted by CountMRVHS

So the battle starts up and I set up my puny forces. Now, probably what happened (can't really remember) is that I probably got a message right at the beginning of the battle that said "Reinforcements Delayed?" -- it basically means that your reinforcements won't be showing up after all.

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Those reinforcements would have eventually joined once enough units had been killed, that your computer could handle adding the entire reinforcing army to the battle.

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Originally Posted by Conqueror

Those reinforcements would have eventually joined once enough units had been killed, that your computer could handle adding the entire reinforcing army to the battle.

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Yes, on default, the game is set to limit the number of men on the battlefield. If a reinforcing army goes over that limit, it won´t show up at the start of the battle.

If you really hate Egypt that much, do what I did - download Titus Andronicus' excellent Ptolemaic mod from Total War Center. It includes some new Seleucid and Carthaginian units, and some really cool Syrian archer mercs!

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Originally Posted by Craterus

Are you guys playing 1.3? It hasn't worked on my computer so far, so I'm talking about experiences with 1.2, where they were almost always the superpower of the east.

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I was playing 1.2 when Pontus beat egypt. Same thing happened in 1.3 aswell.

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Originally Posted by Tricky Lady

1) very easy, just hit "PrintScreen" (usually on top right of your keyboard) and the game will save a TGA-file in your RTW\TGAs folder. You can open TGA files with photo-editing programmes such as PaintShop Pro, Photoshop. There is a freeware programme that can open these files too, but I can't remember its name right now. I found a couple of freeware titles that support TGA over here, at snapfiles.com

2) you can't. I was so happy to see this screen that I immediately took a screenshot. Yes, that's sad, I know. :shame:

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Thank You. Soon, I hope to make a picture of "Faction Destroyed" of Scipii. At this point in the game, I have 94 regions, Scipii has 6, and the rebels have three. It is really neat to have only three factions left on the board, and my own outnumber the others combined by 10-1+!

It will be even better to see "Faction Destroyed" for Rebels if there is such a tile.


Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion