Can you encourage factions to go to war?

Hello all,

haven't been here for a long while (since I couldn't figure out how to invade Ireland in Medieval TW).

In Rome can you encourage two factions to go to war with each other? Apart from the obvious become an ally of one and request they attack.

I want the Spanish to go back to their war with the Carthaginians so I can begin to bully the Spaniards from the north.

Just a little aside - I am trying to alieve my negative culture "bonuses" in barbarian towns by deleting all the barbarian buildings and replacing with my own. It's early days can anyone hint at this being the right move?

I'm playing version 1.2 if this helps, I installed 1.3 but had to roll back as my save games didn't work ~:mecry:

Thanks in advance

Jonnyuk

Hi Jonnyuk,

I know of a way to make sure two factions go to war. What you do is ally with one of them (in this case Carthage) and then attack a Spanish fleet while a Carthaginian fleet is in the 'warzone' as well. This fleet will be dragged into the conflict and Carthage and Spain are at war with each other.

I don't know of a more subtle way I'm afraid, it would be nice if your diplomats or spies could convince both the Spaniards and Carthaginians that the other faction is looking for a chance to stab them in the back and that a 'pre-emptive' strike would be a good idea...

Culture penalty is indeed based on the buildings in a city. Destroying existing buildings (or upgrading them with your own version) helps in lowering the penalty. I believe the governor's building has the most influence, but you're not allowed to pull that one down I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Jonnyuk

(since I couldn't figure out how to invade Ireland in Medieval TW)

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(build a line of ships stretching from your dock, of the province you are disembarking from, to Ireland)

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Originally Posted by Herakleitos

Culture penalty is indeed based on the buildings in a city. Destroying existing buildings (or upgrading them with your own version) helps in lowering the penalty. I believe the governor's building has the most influence, but you're not allowed to pull that one down I'm afraid.

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Correct, except that temples also give a big cultural penalty. Tearing down foreign buildings is not necessary: upgrading works just as well. You can even upgrade certain foreign temples to temples of your own, provided you have the right temple type (fun, trade, war, horse, etc.). But this does not always work: you cannot upgrade the temple of Nike to the temple of Mars or vica versa, even though they have identical effects (I assume temple type differs).

There is a Spanish/Gaulish temple than can be upgraded to a Pantheon that is not otherwise avaible by the Scipii and the Brutii, but getting the Spanish to build the Sacred circle of that temple is quite tricky.

The impact of temples sounds reasonable. I have also modded my game so you can upgrade all temples that belong to your culture. For instance the Julii cannot build a shrine to Mars but they can upgrade it to a temple and further.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Correct, except that temples also give a big cultural penalty. Tearing down foreign buildings is not necessary: upgrading works just as well.

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I'm not sure that temples have that much effect on culture penalty.

The governor's building dominates. If you have the wrong governor's building, it seems very hard to get culture penalty below 40. Max is 50.

Tearing down foreign law/happiness buildings to improve culture penalty will generally hurt you until you get your own governor's building built.

I tend to immediately knock down buildings with no order benefit that I'm not going to use (e.g., military buildings and blacksmiths in a city I don't want to use for troop production). This gets a little cash, starts the re-culturation, and makes the city less valuable to the enemy should you lose it. I might knock down the temple if it's near the low end because it can be quickly rebuilt, and then grown beyond what it was. I might knock down the market if the build queue is idle, but I can often just overbuild it. After I get the opportunity to build a new governor's building, then I will usually take the final steps to purge the old culture. The primary exception being those temples which give huge experience bonuses, which are great to keep.

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There is a Spanish/Gaulish temple than can be upgraded to a Pantheon that is not otherwise avaible by the Scipii and the Brutii, but getting the Spanish to build the Sacred circle of that temple is quite tricky.

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yes, you mean the temple of Epona, if the gauls / Spanish built the sacred circle of Epona , you can( as a Roman ) upgrade it to the Pantheon of Epona, giving you a +5 experience bonus , meaning you can churn out 2 silver chevron cohorts, ~:)

:balloon2:

Thanks for all the help, chaps.

Herakleitos, you hit the nail on the head about looking for a subtle way to pull this off.

Although I do like the fleet idea it feels a tad like an exploit. I really hoped there would be some way a skilled diplomat could cause some trouble by maybe travelling to a border town of theirs and carrying out a "they eat babies, that lot." campaign.

In theory, you could ask them to ask a certain faction, but for some reason that almost never works. The other way round, offering to attack an enemy of your ally, is usually declined as well, unless you offer it as a gift. The diplomatic system is, well, weird.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

In theory, you could ask them to ask a certain faction, but for some reason that almost never works. The other way round, offering to attack an enemy of your ally, is usually declined as well, unless you offer it as a gift. The diplomatic system is, well, weird.

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Agree. However every one have its price and could with a heafty money gift be convinced to attack the foe of your choosing. The main problem with this is that after receving your gift they never have to actually declare war on your foe since there´s no penalty for this behaviour. As you said: The diplomatic system is, well, weird.

In 1.3 Julii campaign I had a diplomat ask the Scipii to attack Carthage just after they'd taken Sicily (they were already at war). They wanted 500 denarii per turn for something like 15 turns, which seemed a bit steep so I didn't go for it. If they don't move after a few years (as seems to be the case) I'll try again.

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Originally Posted by dismal

I'm not sure that temples have that much effect on culture penalty.

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Ahem, I just checked the developer's post on that and you are absolutely right. My apologies.

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Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

yes, you mean the temple of Epona, if the gauls / Spanish built the sacred circle of Epona , you can( as a Roman ) upgrade it to the Pantheon of Epona, giving you a +5 experience bonus , meaning you can churn out 2 silver chevron cohorts,

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I have just checked my files and they have removed it for 1.3. The building entry is still in the export_desc_building.txt, but no faction can build it anymore. I thought it was limited to Brutii and Scipii in 1.2 only.

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Originally Posted by Herakleitos

Hi Jonnyuk,

I know of a way to make sure two factions go to war. What you do is ally with one of them (in this case Carthage) and then attack a Spanish fleet while a Carthaginian fleet is in the 'warzone' as well. This fleet will be dragged into the conflict and Carthage and Spain are at war with each other.

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This can happen on land as well. I experienced it first hand last night.

I (Vandals) had a general walking around building watch towers who happened to be in a square where the Alemanni attacked the Goths. I was allied with the Alemanni, so I got dragged into a war with the Goths.

The truly ironic thing is that the Alemanni army was in my province because it was on its way to attacking me. It besieged me the next turn and I had two new enemies.

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I don't know of a more subtle way I'm afraid, it would be nice if your diplomats or spies could convince both the Spaniards and Carthaginians that the other faction is looking for a chance to stab them in the back and that a 'pre-emptive' strike would be a good idea...

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Isn't the "attack faction" option available as a diplomatic demand?

I seem to recall paying factions to attack other factions in MTW, but can't recall feeling a need to try it in RTW. The MTW map made drawing enemy troops away from their border with you worth paying for, in RTW you just go right through the border.

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Originally Posted by dismal

Isn't the "attack faction" option available as a diplomatic demand?

I seem to recall paying factions to attack other factions in MTW, but can't recall feeling a need to try it in RTW. The MTW map made drawing enemy troops away from their border with you worth paying for, in RTW you just go right through the border.

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There is an attack faction, but the A.I. almost always refuses so there is little point. In M:TW this was impossible: there was no way you could pay tribute to the computer opponent. The only way this might be remotely possible is to allow a crusade to pass through your lands and attack the enemy (if you refuse they would attack you) or to bribe enemy units to attack their masters (meaning they would become your units).

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I have just checked my files and they have removed it for 1.3. The building entry is still in the export_desc_building.txt, but no faction can build it anymore. I thought it was limited to Brutii and Scipii in 1.2 only.

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I always thought that if any Roman could do it, it would have been the Julii, since they tend to campaign northwards, to the barbarians who can build the Temple of Epona ( spanish and Gauls ).
never knew it was practically the other way around.


:balloon2:

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Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

I always thought that if any Roman could do it, it would have been the Julii, since they tend to campaign northwards, to the barbarians who can build the Temple of Epona ( spanish and Gauls ).
never knew it was practically the other way around.

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Blast, I really need to check my statements more often. At 1.2 it is available to all Romans (after the Sacred Circle has been built). Don't know why I thought it was limited to Brutii and Scipii only :embarassed: .

Ok, thanks for clearing it up Ludens., to bad there isn't such a feature in BI, I liked it in the 1.2 version- though it was a shame other factions couldn't do anything like that, and that it was therefor limited to the ROmans.

:balloon2:

Only time I ever got the Circle of Epona was when I captured Alesia which had the shrine of Epona, pumped population into it and built every single other building and then gave it back to Gaul.

Before they'd dilly dally and build other stuff.

What is the fastest way to divide two opposing allies in SP RTW 1.3 ?