Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
I am presently engaged as the Greek faction in RTW.
There are two buildings which I find that I can build as my cities get to the "Large City" phase. In the Greek mode though, they are mostly useless to me.
The first is the Army Barracks. With an Army Barracks in Sparta and Syracuse, I can train up and retrain Spartan hoplites. I can also train up and retrain infantry used in smaller barracks such as militia hoplites, and regular hoplites.
However, outside of those two cities, I cannot even retrain the Spartan hoplites when they have taken casualties. To retrain them, I literally have to send them back to Sparta and Syracuse. O.K. Fine.
My question is, what point is there in even building an Army barracks anywhere else if the best unit you can train and retrain can be done at a City Barracks? Is there a stronger, more versatile unit that can be trained at the Army barracks, and I am not just seeing it?
The other observation is about the Greek elite cavalry stable. Yes, I can retrain Greek Cavalry, (light) but the only unit I can get there that I cannot get at a cavalry stable is "incindiary pigs."
I don't know about most of you, but I don't even use incindiary pigs. A few were given to me by the senate when I was playing as a Roman faction, usually for completing some mission, but I do not spend money on them.
I also got three units of them once when a city that used to be mine revolted against the Eyptians while I had it under siege from the outside. We have all seen revolts before, but this time, I actually got a city from it. I later found the incindiary pigs to be useless.
I can see it now, light them up and turn them loose, and the whole army gets hungry for bacon! Stop fighting guys! Let's have some breakfast!
My point is that with this structure, I can still only train and retrain the same light cavalry which I can also get at cavalry stables. There is no upgrade for a heavier cavalry which I see the Macedonians, and Selucids using.
Is this a permanent handicap on the Greek Cities, or will there be something better when I take a Roman city with a Circus Maximus?
I am not counting on that though. I have already taken Capua from the Scipii, and even with an Urban barracks, still the best infantry I can get is armored hoplites.
Is this just the way it is, or am I neglecting something? Are super hoplites or heavy cavalry available somewhere else, and I'm not seeing them? After building about 8 Army barracks and almost that many Elite Cavalry Stables with no benefit, I have just quit building them. I have about half a dozen cities with the only unbuilt things on the building cue being the Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stables.
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Well you should be able to get Armored Hoplites with either an army barracks or the next tier of barracks, as to the cavalry that is a handicap you will have to deal with. The incendiary pigs are decent against elephants, but archers with fire arrows and skirmishers are far more effective.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Other than the two aforementioned cities, you might as well not bother. The lower tier barracks are perfectly good "pez-dispensers."
As to the cavalry, the answer is a visit to Thrace and/or Galicia. Greeks get no hammer cavalry other than a general, so you need to "rent" sarmatians. They cost a bit, so up armor/weap them at selected spots whenever possible -- that's a lot of shekels you're spending per horse in a part of the world just chock full of spears.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
I strongly suggest the Extended Greek mod. Much more depth is added to all the Greek factions, similar to that of the Roman factions. Nice artwork, very nicely done. I am extremely impressed with it and enjoying the Greek factions much more.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Yeah, plus XGM got a load of other game fixes that makes the whole game much more playable.
Mix it with the RTWEP mod from twcenter to obtain something quite close to perfection.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Quote:
Originally Posted by buckZor
I strongly suggest the Extended Greek mod. Much more depth is added to all the Greek factions, similar to that of the Roman factions. Nice artwork, very nicely done. I am extremely impressed with it and enjoying the Greek factions much more.
Extended Greek Mod? Where would one find that?
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uesugi Kenshin
Well you should be able to get Armored Hoplites with either an army barracks or the next tier of barracks, as to the cavalry that is a handicap you will have to deal with. The incendiary pigs are decent against elephants, but archers with fire arrows and skirmishers are far more effective.
Actually, I can get armored hoplites with a city barracks, which is one level before the Army barracks. I just think it's silly to spend the money to upgrade to Army barracks anywhere other than Sparta and Syracuse, because the only thing you can get at an Army barracks you cannot get anywhere else is Spartan hoplites, and you can only get them at those two cities.
For you folks in the early stages as Greeks, save your money on that upgrade except in Sparta and Syracuse!
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
You can look into the forge board for XGM, you'll find a much improved game...
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celt Centurion
Actually, I can get armored hoplites with a city barracks, which is one level before the Army barracks. I just think it's silly to spend the money to upgrade to Army barracks anywhere other than Sparta and Syracuse, because the only thing you can get at an Army barracks you cannot get anywhere else is Spartan hoplites, and you can only get them at those two cities.
For you folks in the early stages as Greeks, save your money on that upgrade except in Sparta and Syracuse!
Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion
Okay, I haven't played as the Greeks in a while and you only mentioned Hoplites so I assumed you had somehow missed the armored hoplites. The general consensus seems to be that armored hoplites are better in general, though the Spartans will win in a pure melee battle, they have a major disadvantage problem and there are none of the infrastructure problems that you mentioned.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
You could edit the unit stats so that in order to build Spartans you won't need the hidden resource "Spartan" that limits them to those two cities...
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Spartans are a luxury you only really need against the Romans.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celt Centurion
Is this just the way it is, or am I neglecting something? Are super hoplites or heavy cavalry available somewhere else, and I'm not seeing them?
They certainly are, if you get into modding your copy of RTW you'll be able to improve your own copy to no end. Otherwise download a mod which does all the hard work for you :san_grin:
If you install Vercingetorix's x-pak and study the extracted tga files, you will see that the Greeks have Macedonian Cavalry unit cards. Since discovering this, I've let the Greeks recruit this unit at the hippodrome, its only fair since Macedon can recruit all the way upto Companion Cavalry @ elite cav stables.
Yeah, I've barred the incendiary pigs from being recruited, no need for them tbh.
As other's have said, you can always remove the 'Sparta' hidden resource to allow Spartans to be recruited and retrained in any of your cities containing at least an army barracks.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
where can i find this RTWEP mod?
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
It's hosted at www.twcenter.net, look into their forums.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
This is excellent stuff!
Thankyou.
Greek factions are now looking more fun than ever. Question about the poleponesian (however it is spelled) spartans though are the sprites for the models there? And where ?
Edit: oops... wrong thread... sort of...
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
I'm not sure about what you mean, anyways if you look into the XGM readme you will find how to change the spartan skins via the extras installer...
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeNick
This is excellent stuff!
Thankyou.
Greek factions are now looking more fun than ever. Question about the poleponesian (however it is spelled) spartans though are the sprites for the models there? And where ?
Edit: oops... wrong thread... sort of...
They don't come with sprites or unit / unit info cards. Just use the armoured hoplite sprites, they are a fairly good resemblence from a distance.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Just one thing, in MP gaming, Greece are as fair as any other faction due to the ability of getting as many Spartans as you want (Limited by money of course). So, I suggest this, add the hidden resource 'Spartan' to your original cities, or to any city you want. If it was for me, I'd add them to only the original regions of Greece. (I don't how, but it should be easy, heh?)
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Why is modding the only answer to questions of original game balance???
These things should get patched up, not left to users to mod to.
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Of course you're right player1, but when CA fails it's good to know modders can at least fix part of the mess...
Re: Greek Army Barracks and Elite Cavalry Stable
Yes, I know that from experience... D:
Still, it's pity that developers don't look into these issues more often.
Gamebalance is as important as bugfixing.
