The United Nations: Great peacekeeping organization or horrible failure?

So, time for a good old UN bashing topic. Let's have a good time with this one, yeah?

Since it's formation in 1948, the United Nations has embarked on 56 peacekeeping missions in 32 nations. The cost, 30 billion dollars, has been heavily paid for by the United States, approx. 32% of these funds come directly from the US taxpayer. These missions have cost the lives of approximatly 2,000 peacekeepers, 60 of which were Americans. However, dispite these losses, the UN has not even been able to prevent the atrocities they have sought to. For exampe, the United Nations sat idly by as almost 800,000 Rwandans were hacked to death in Rwanda (“ UN Admits Failure in Rwanda,” BBC News Online, December 16, 1999.). Another example is in Eritrea, the presence of peacekeepers has failed to end a conflict that has so far claimed 70,000 lives. Directly and indirectly, the UN is responsible for the deaths of over 1 million civilians worldwide.

The UN is influence by nations that do not share American/Western values on Freedom and tolerance, and has a heavily anti-American bias in it's rulings. For example, the overt anti-Americanism in the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) led the U.S. to withdraw its membership for twenty years, and the Senate Appropriations Committee has recommended that U.S. funding for UNESCO ($71.4 million) be withheld until the committee purges itself of this bias. Also, the US has been kicked off of the UN Human Rights commission, and replaced by Libya, an Islamic dictatorship with a history of human rights abuse. The Commission’s membership also includes Sudan, which practices human slavery; Cuba, which has been ranked by Human Rights Watch as one of the world’s most repressive regimes; and Zimbabwe, which practices openly racist policies and political repression.

In the months since it's removal from these committes, the US was forced by the UN to sit through a lecture on it's human rights abuses in Iraq and at home, dispite the fact that it ignores the abuses in the Sudan and Rwanda, to the point that the US delegation has walked out of the meeting in protest. One recent UN delegation called for the US to remove firearms ownership from it's constitution, and another singles out the US as the nation that should pay the most reparations for slavery (dispite the Fact that it was the Turks who origionally enslaved Africans, and the English, French, Spanish, and Portugese that brought them to America).

The UN is also anti-Free Market, and a major voice for Global Weath Redistribution. Its plan for accomplishing this includes the creation of a global tax commission and international income tax, which would be used to promote income equality between rich and poor member states. The General Secretariat has also called for worldwide tax harmonization, which would require pro-growth countries like the U.S., UK, and Australia to raise their tax rates to match the higher levels in social market states like France and Germany.

The UN also faces a series of structural flaws. Cheif among them is that oppresive dictatorships get an equal voice as free nations. For example, why should Sudan, a nation with a history of ethnic cleansing and human rights abuse, get the same say as Austria? Or why should Mynamar, a brutal military dictatorship, get the same rights as the United States? In this manner, it not only hinders the spread of Democracy but also promotes totalitarianism and opressive regimes.

A second problem with the UN system is the ease and frequency with which it is ignored by the members of the Security Council, who use it in order to hold back American influence and spread its own.. Russia, for example, has repeatedly used the UN to block U.S. initiatives in the Balkans and Iraq, while ignoring protests against its own policies in Chechnya. China has used the UN as a tool to halt US peacekeeping missions in Macedonia and Kosovo. At the same time, Beijing undertook its own unilateralist invasion of Tibet and has pledged to retake Taiwan by force without any regard for the UN’s objections. And then there is France – the country that led the UN crusade against the U.S. in the Iraq War. Since 1960, France has conducted 48 separate military interventions in Africa – very few of which had Security Council approval.

Then, there is the corruption that dominates the United Nations. ike so many public sector enterprises, the UN is marked by “routine fraud, waste, and abuse of resources.

For decades, UN budgetary procedures have been “covered by a shroud of obfuscation and secrecy,” without any avenue for U.S. taxpayer oversight, dispite the fact that the US pays a great deal of the UN's funding. For more than 20 years, the committee that controls the budget (the Advisory Committee on Administrative and Budgetary Questions) has been run by Conrad Mselle – a Tanzanian who has no formal training in finance, convenes committee meetings behind closed doors, and routinely diverts large sums of money into his own discretionary accounts.

Predictably, the UN’s lack of accountability leads to waste – some of which is an unintentional by-product of bureaucratic inefficiency and some of which is deliberately generated for the profit of UN leaders. An independent inspector found examples of waste and abuse in multiple UN offices. For example, 10 million dollars was embezzled from the UN Childrens Fund. 4 million embezzled from UN offices in Mogadishu.

This is in addition to the Oil-for-Food scandal. Ten percent of the program’s funds – about $10 billion – went directly into the personal bank accounts of Saddam Hussein and his family. Also three high-ranking UN officials – including undersecretary Benon Sevanake – accepted multi-million-dollar bribes from the Iraqi government.

Another problem with the UN is incompetant management. For example, there is no way to determine if military force should be used to secure stability in a nation. This leads to the UN sending troops to countries like Georgia, where they aren't needed, and ignoring nations like the Sudan, where they are. Because the UN rewards countries for contributions to peacekeeping ($1,000 per soldier per month + costs of the mission) but lacks a s ystem for verifying the credentials of troops, countries often send second-rank personnel. For example, in 1993 the government of Bulgaria – starved for hard currency – cut a deal with inmates from prisons and psychiatric wards, offering them pardons if they participated as peacekeepers on a UN mission to Cambodia. Hundreds of mental health inmates put on uniforms, were shipped to Cambodia, and went on a six-month rampage across the country. The Bulgarian government got $1,000 a head, the inmates got their freedom, and Cambodia got bedlam.

During the same mission in Cambodia, peacekeepers became famous for producing a drug/alcohol cocktail called the “Space Shuttle” – a combination of marijuana, cocaine, and liquor that was distilled over a six-week period and sold to the local populace. On a mission in Somalia, the peacekeeping forces operated a weekend brothel at a local villa and used girls from the nearby refugee camp to make pornographic videos.

There are many more reasons that I shall not get into, but I beleive the UN is the worst idea a human has ever had. Since it's foundation, the world has seen more turmoil than ever before, and instead of trying to prevent it, the UN adds to it.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

I beleive the UN is the worst idea a human has ever had.

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That's some stiff competition right there. What about the Russian Dog Mine? The "sticky" grenade? Spandex pantsuits? The Teletubbies? I mean, sure, the U.N. is a mess, but "worst idea ever"? That's going to take some proving.

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Originally Posted by Lemurmania

That's some stiff competition right there. What about the Russian Dog Mine? The "sticky" grenade? Spandex pantsuits? The Teletubbies? I mean, sure, the U.N. is a mess, but "worst idea ever"? That's going to take some proving.

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Heh, it's close, UN beats it because it takes up valuable New York land that I could build projects on. :san_cry:

You could turn off the TV when teletubbies came on, but you can't stop paying the UN if our congressmen don't.

Very nice by the way, Kaiser.

Crazed Rabbit

What about Korea and the first Persian Gulf War?

Don't all of our beloved Übercons have their own special secret treehouse where they can UN-bash and so forth to their hearts' content? Where they can engage in mutual outrage without bothering the neighbors?

I believe the U.N. is a wreck, but I don't need to hear it from the Rush Limbaugh crew. Don't you lads have secret decorder rings to play with?

The purpose of the UN .... is as it has always been (except when the US has imposed its own military demands upon it - 56 times). That is, as a platform for debate amongst the nations of the Earth to resolve issues of war in a peaceful manner.

Unfortunatley, since we (USA) can't own it out right .... or intimidate enough of the nations ... or buy all of them off from time to time ... or always seem benevolent to most of them. Then we must downgrade the premise for, exitance of, and mission for its creation. We must disavow any previous hperbole of those men with the courage to create an organization that allows discussion that might be contrary to our political possition.

God forbid, that someone should disagree with us. That be bad people - eh?

The entire purpose of the UN is to allow open discussion in the world community about the issues of the day.

That, we (the USA) seem to be the bad guy more often than naught is simply a matter of symantics. We are. We are, because we more often than not attempt to bull y others into line with threats of economic reprisals, etc. We have done this for +50 years, and the world has heard it all before. Plus, they know we need them now more than they need us (if only someone could tell the president that his corporate buddys are all international and don't give a rats tail about made in USA or made in China).

Still, I comprehend your idea - Kaiser. Just disavow your understanding of the topic.

wehay another test for the realists and neo-realists to prove their disgusting ideas are more disgusting than others. What you people should really take into accoutn is not the problems with the UN but the benefits it has brought about alongside other idealist ideas.

except when the US has imposed its own military demands upon it
For balance Kafir you should note that all 5 permanent members abuse their position .
Or you do the same as Kaiser with his blaming others but ignoring the US
A second problem with the UN system is the ease and frequency with which it is ignored by the members of the Security Council, who use it in order to hold back American influence and spread its own.. Russia, for example, has repeatedly used the UN to block U.S. initiatives in the Balkans and Iraq, while ignoring protests against its own policies in Chechnya. China has used the UN as a tool to halt US peacekeeping missions in Macedonia and Kosovo. At the same time, Beijing undertook its own unilateralist invasion of Tibet and has pledged to retake Taiwan by force without any regard for the UN’s objections. And then there is France – the country that led the UN crusade against the U.S. in the Iraq War. Since 1960, France has conducted 48 separate military interventions in Africa – very few of which had Security Council approval.
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Now then Capo , where did you get that article you posted from ?~;)

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Originally Posted by Tribesman

Now then Capo , where did you get that article you posted from ?~;)

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Indeed - I found it under the following link:
http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2004/LINKS/neg/

Kaiser, I would appreciate if you would provide a link to the original source if you decide to copy and paste material such as your starting post (the absolute minimum would be to point out that you have not written the text yourself).

Well I have way more respect for the UN then the USA... but that doesnt say very much now that I think about it.
The USA can just veto themselfs crazy in the UN... and you have your allies with your side in the UN to... Isreal... and Micronesia :san_laugh:

oh well... im go drink some glögg... toodle

Indeed
Well it was a bit obvious , it isn't in Capos style and makes some fundamentally mistaken assumptions that he would not have invented himself . Little thing like Turks inventing slavery or Austria not having ethnic cleansing or human rights abuse in its history .

Claiming that the UN is responsible for all those deaths is a little over the top. The thing with many American detractors of the UN is that they fail to understand its collective nature. They believe that when the UN fails it is due to the UN as an super-national organisation. This is not true. When the UN fails it is the fault of the member countries. Often this failure can be traced to the lack of will on the part of the more powerful and influential nations. The UN is only as good as the sum of its parts will let it be.

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Directly and indirectly, the UN is responsible for the deaths of over 1 million civilians worldwide.

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The UN is in no way 'responsible' for the deaths - they failed to protect the people but did not help the killers.

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The UN also faces a series of structural flaws. Cheif among them is that oppresive dictatorships get an equal voice as free nations. For example, why should Sudan, a nation with a history of ethnic cleansing and human rights abuse, get the same say as Austria? Or why should Mynamar, a brutal military dictatorship, get the same rights as the United States? In this manner, it not only hinders the spread of Democracy but also promotes totalitarianism and opressive regimes.

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It's called democracy. Who exactly would decide who is 'worthy' of being represented?

The sole redeeming fact of this entire text is that Kaiser loves Tchaikovsky.

But he doesn't mention Tchaikovsky, I hear you say. That's right. Nor should he, lest he messes that subject up as well.

AdrianII, Tribesman, if you don't stop to make fun of conservatives, they'll all leave and join their hidden secret conservative forum, and you'll have nothing to laught at :san_rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

AdrianII, Tribesman, if you don't stop to make fun of conservatives, they'll all leave and join their hidden secret conservative forum, and you'll have nothing to laught at :san_rolleyes:

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We'll always have you, Meneldil. :san_grin:

Meneldil , I will laugh just as easily at people from the left , the conservatives are just so readily available at the moment and leave themselves so open to it .

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Indeed - I found it under the following link:
http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2004/LINKS/neg/

Kaiser, I would appreciate if you would provide a link to the original source if you decide to copy and paste material such as your starting post (the absolute minimum would be to point out that you have not written the text yourself).

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Main source right there. Took some from a few other sources, but by and large, that's where I got most of it from.

But I *did* write what I posted, just cut and pasted a few statistics (like all of them) here and there :san_grin:

And the turks didn't invent slavery, they invented *modern* slavery. If your going to cite me in your bashes, get me right, yeah?

I mean, seriously.

Of course, if you can give me one good thing the UN has ever done, you get a cookie.

And the turks didn't invent slavery, they invented *modern* slavery. If your going to cite me in your bashes, get me right, yeah?

OK then Capo for accuracies sake ....
dispite the Fact that it was the Turks who origionally enslaved Africans
So when did Turks form a link in the Golden triangle ?:san_grin:

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Of course, if you can give me one good thing the UN has ever done, you get a cookie.

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The WHO (World Health Organisation), a part of the UN helped to wiped out smallpoxs.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia

And the turks didn't invent slavery, they invented *modern* slavery. If your going to cite me in your bashes, get me right, yeah?

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'Turks' was the nickname for the (mostly) Arab pirates on the North African coast, also known as 'Barbary Pirates'.

However, the episode you mention (around 1500) was when the Ottoman Empire took over the maritime slave trade from the Genoese and Venetian slave traders. Oh, and from the Roman slave traders of course, who had acted on instructions from various Popes to enslave entire regions and towns, including Florence.

But on Tchaikovsky you haven't made a single mistake yet. :bow:

The UN is not a peacekeeping organisation but a Diplomatic forum. It operates at its worst when it tries to be something it isn't.

It was used by the USA and the USSR as a stage for the intrigue of the cold war... Now days though America sees it as being a restraining force on its global influence, hence the "go it alone" line adopted during Iraq by the US and UK Governments.

One thing i do agree upon is it needs major reform in its structure.

Adrian, you make it sound like Christians had a monopoly on maritime slavery in the middle-ages.

They didn't.

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Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff

Adrian, you make it sound like Christians had a monopoly on maritime slavery in the middle-ages.

They didn't.

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Nobody had a monopoly. No Sir.

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AdrianII, Tribesman, if you don't stop to make fun of conservatives, they'll all leave and join their hidden secret conservative forum, and you'll have nothing to laught at

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What? Where is this secret Shangri-La? ~:confused:

Anyway, here's a breakdown of the good the UN has done:
Good: Smallpox eradication

Bad: Anti-Western
Pro-Global government
Anti-Soveriegnty
Anti-Israel
Anti-America
Indulges Corrupt Dictators
Corrupt
Human rights council
Anti-Freedom
Etc., etc.

Crazed Rabbit

Kaiser, you have serious, dried-mud-stuck problems with Turks. I offer you to start writing proper nouns with capital letters like "T". If you expect any contribution, that needs at least a pinch of respect - despite the fact that you already claimed this topic about "bashing".

UN is like uniting all plants in order to maintain the peace & love kingdom on earth. No use at all. They watched Bosnians getting torn apart.

'Nuff contribution for such another thread that reveals another thing about Turks. Did you also know that we enslaved some Martians and planted them as spies in USA to twaddle around ?

LEN: you people are evil.....surely the Martians are the most PC-ly protected people around, they are so alien they are aliens, they are of a naturally unusual appearance (green etc.), of unknown sexuality and undoubtedly the smallest minority on Earth.

Oh, I'm so angry at you lot now, I'll probably have to go on a kebab boycott.

Kebabs ? Aah, genocided cows.. Vulgarity.. Pure and utter Vulgarity..

are there no lambs left that you have had to move onto cows?!