Combining units

When you combine two units with say different armor or morale stats, I notice that if you put them into the unit with the better armor, the unit symbol at least retains that "better" armor. Is this real or an illusion? Do all the men in the unit now have the armor upgrade or is it like valor where it is actually calculated seperately man for man? If so though, why would it keep the appearance of the higher upgrade when you put a bunch of "lesser" troops with a lone remaining leader with the higher armor? Does it just show the leader's armor?

Similarly, if I take my half strenght knights with +3 armor and +2 weapon and refit them in a province which can build them but does not have the same bonuses to a fresh unit...the unit symbol (now full strength) shows the upgrade. Do they all really have it?

Check out this thread on Combining Units Thread.

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I notice that if you put them into the unit with the better armor, the unit symbol at least retains that "better" armor. Is this real or an illusion?

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This is real. Drop the unit with lesser armor onto the unit with better armor.

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Do all the men in the unit now have the armor upgrade or is it like valor where it is actually calculated seperately man for man?

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Armor and weapons are calculated by unit, whereas morale is tracked by man.

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Similarly, if I take my half strenght knights with +3 armor and +2 weapon and refit them in a province which can build them but does not have the same bonuses to a fresh unit...the unit symbol (now full strength) shows the upgrade. Do they all really have it?

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Yes. If you have a unit with +1 weapon and retrain in a province with +1 armor, the unit will come out with weapons and armor.

ichi:san_smiley:

Some other tips to keep in mind when combining/retraining. If you have depleted troops with armor/weapons upgrades, you should restock them with the highest-valor replacements possible. Sometimes that'll be other upgraded (or not) troops that have gained valor in combat, but often you can built the same type of troop without the hardware upgrades but with a valor bonus (province or master-level building bonuses). Those are the best kind to feed into your upgraded partial units.

In another thread on the issue there were a couple of interpretations of how this could make sense. One was that the new men added to the unit 'inherited' the arms and armor of its fallen members. The less grisly option is that the general of the unit is responsible for providing the weapons and armor to his men, so he has access to the better equipment and distributes it to the newcomers. Thus the new troops can have a legitimate reason to receive these bonuses even though their valor must be earned individually on the field of battle.

Ajax

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Originally Posted by ichi

Armor and weapons are calculated by unit, whereas morale is tracked by man.

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Hi Ichi,

I know that valor is tracked by man, but is moral, too? I have the feeling that moral may be tracked by unit, though I can't really tell since base moral isn't listed in the battle logs. But when something happens that results in a moral penalty during a battle (general dies or something) the whole unit reacts as one - it's not like only some men rout and others keep fighting.

This has puzzled me for a while - any insight you may have will be appreciated!

P.

The idea of not all units routing is good since not every man is the same. Some more courageous ones would probably stay and fight even if their general is dead. That would of course be very hard to programme and to control on the battlefield.

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Originally Posted by Procrustes

Hi Ichi,

I know that valor is tracked by man, but is moral, too? I have the feeling that moral may be tracked by unit, though I can't really tell since base moral isn't listed in the battle logs. But when something happens that results in a moral penalty during a battle (general dies or something) the whole unit reacts as one - it's not like only some men rout and others keep fighting.

This has puzzled me for a while - any insight you may have will be appreciated!

P.

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Good catch, Valor is tracked by individual man.

ichi

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Originally Posted by miho

The idea of not all units routing is good since not every man is the same. Some more courageous ones would probably stay and fight even if their general is dead. That would of course be very hard to programme and to control on the battlefield.

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While it would be nice if the engine could make all calculations based on individual soldiers, it would be rather useless since a soldier needs to have a much higher morale than the rest to stay fighting when the rest is running away (morale pentaly! ). Also, I think it is not particulary realistic. I mean: trying to stop a full enemy unit on your own or with a few mates is more like recklessness than bravery. When people start running, herd instinct takes over.

I do wish the game made it easier to inspect the unit stats, though - it would be nice to be able to pull up the moral of units when you are on the campaign map. (Just a very small gripe.)

Talking about combining units, I have been rather often unable to combine two units to make one, usually one person remains that is not absorbed into the combined unit. Can that be because the guy is a general with vices and virtues?

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Talking about combining units, I have been rather often unable to combine two units to make one, usually one person remains that is not absorbed into the combined unit. Can that be because the guy is a general with vices and virtues?

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That's it. As soon as he's got either V&V's or a title, you can't absorb him in another unit.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

That's it. As soon as he's got either V&V's or a title, you can't absorb him in another unit.

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Those guys are good for small battles or drawing fire in siege assault. :croc:

:san_laugh:
I ended up with a couple of Hospitaller Knights with just one to three men in the unit, but eight star generals. Pretty nice fellows, just they couldn´t actually fight.
However, I had the combining problem with other units as well, mercenary Druzina (whoever you write them - those nice fellows that dismout to 80 feudal foot knights) cavalry. It seems mercenaries can´t combine either :san_sad:

Yes, it is true. Mercenary units cannot merge either.
It was stated somewhere within the Guild that they actually can be merged (namely when both units have exactly the same valour and upgrades, and neither of the generals has V&Vs), but my thorough testing has showed that they never can - not even in the above described case.
If they take losses, the only option is to fire them - or let your enemy do it for you :skull: :devilish: :evilgrin:

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Originally Posted by Loucipher

Yes, it is true. Mercenary units cannot merge either.
It was stated somewhere within the Guild that they actually can be merged (namely when both units have exactly the same valour and upgrades, and neither of the generals has V&Vs), but my thorough testing has showed that they never can - not even in the above described case.

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It used to be possible to merge mercenaries in vanilla M:TW, but either the first patch or VI put an end to this.