1.6 a job well done by CA

Ultra smooth gameplay, its nice to see some units in previously weaker or stronger factions solved fine tunedm solving some balance issues though not there are some factions like east rome and berbers that may need further tweakings. I may even give the singleplayer mode a go to see if theres anymore improvement that I can't experience in multiplayer.

Congrats on a job well done CA, 1.6 had made the multiplayer experience so so much more wonderful in BI that I just couldn't believe it, you have my thanks.:san_laugh:

Cheers!!!

I am an SP player and its too early for me to tell yet.

So far it does seem to improve things.:san_grin:

First thing I noticed was the improved terrain on the battle maps.
Kudos CA.

Can't say I've noticed the improved terrain....

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Originally Posted by GFX707

Can't say I've noticed the improved terrain....

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Haven't noticed that either. I'm wondering if it is something specific IceTorque has noticed or that I've overlooked. Interested to hear what hidden jewels are out there.

Perhaps I should have said, The improved terrain texturing.
Much easier on my eyes,

You have noticed that right ?

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Originally Posted by IceTorque

Perhaps I should have said, The improved terrain texturing.
Much easier on my eyes,

You have noticed that right ?

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Not sure that I have. The textures in the folder don't appear to have changed. Perhaps it is the way some setting is being processed?

I must say that this patch so far is very good.
It has fixed alot of things and didn't break anything in the process(atleast not what I have seen so far).
Well done CA indeed.

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Originally Posted by TB666

I must say that this patch so far is very good.
It has fixed alot of things and didn't break anything in the process(atleast not what I have seen so far).
Well done CA indeed.

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Well seems ive been selling CA short,
Im glad to see their patching there games now :)

i think i will try this patch as well.
:)

I doubt anyone's been selling CA short. What criticism there has been for RTW has on the whole been deserved. It's just that now CA have started producing the goods and making RTW into the game it really should have been! :D

There are still faults, there always will be, but on the whole there doesn't appear to be any real game-breakers!

One of the worst aspects now is the pila "fix." Criminy, why can't they just get it right and leave it be? Yes, I want the AI to use its pila, and to be able to finish the sequence when they start. However, I don't want them to be able to do repeated pila cycles while already engaged! First we have no pila, now they are able to empty their pila point blank until empty while meleeing (and it seems to "pause" the enemy attack during the animation to a degree as well.) Don't they play test??? I don't remember anyone asking for uber pila.

The effect is sort of like it was with the pri/sec attack bug (with its +4 attack bonus.) When I'm attacking against pila wielders in melee they are getting many "extra" kills this way. Cheesy.

This isn't as bad as the pri/sec bug because it effects fewer units, but I sure would like to see it properly fixed, rather than bouncing from one extreme to the other.

Well I see no problem with it.
I use that method myself sometimes.

likewise TB666

I've not been able to get as much playing done as I'd like to really notice this pila thing - does this actually help the AI in battles? If so (and I presume it does), isn't this actually a good thing?

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Originally Posted by Zatoichi

I've not been able to get as much playing done as I'd like to really notice this pila thing - does this actually help the AI in battles? If so (and I presume it does), isn't this actually a good thing?

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Yes, it does help the AI, but in a very artificial way. The player can use this exploit as well. I choose not to (like I don't use warhounds, flaming arrows, and stacks with many elephants.) It is an immersion killer watching this.

Oh OK - I'll watch out for this then - I presume that makes Plumbitari (?) extra-specially lethal now then, as they certainly don't lack missiles. I'm generally against the cheesier exploits myself, but for the sake of clarity, how do you get infantry engaged in combat to throw their pila? Is it just FAW enabled an re-click the unit you're fighting? Not that I want to do it of course, but I don't want to do it by accident!

Incidentally, is this the case for the axe throwers as well? Do skirmishers & archers do this?

Back on topic - yes, on the whole this is a very good patch so far as I can tell, with no game breaking additions, and plenty of fixes. Add in Player1's new bug fixer (version 3) and you get it pretty much where it should have been (in an ideal world) when released. I don't mean to be damning with faint praise here - I really do think it was a good effort from CA - there's only so much that can be done in limited time and on a limited budget.

Huh. I'm not sure if it's that new a "feature", and not an old problem (?)reappearing. At least waaaay back when I was unlocking the rest of the factions the hard way (ie. playing through the long Roman campaign) I distinctly recall having managed to cause about ten times as many casualties to an unit of wall-storming Urban Cohort than the enemy ever managed by the simple virtue of having left Fire At Will on and the rear ranks "aiding" the front-rankers with the occasional pila volley... Happened in field battles too, though not as devastatingly.

It may actually be intentional (at least assuming the troops conform to normal ammunition restrictions), as I understand that sort of thing was done historically too. It's not like the rear ranks had better things to do with their javelins than lob them onto the enemy over the heads of the front ranks...

Watchman,

What appears to be new to me is that I've seen the front rank also throw. I wouldn't mind just the rear rankers trying to throw as they should have great difficulty actually releasing due to FF and the like, but that is not the way it appears to be working. And javelinemen and archers don't seem to be able to do this. They finish a firing sequence and then are fully in melee even if FAW is enabled. Why shouldn't they be able to do the same?

If the pila was exploitable to this extent before, I was not using it, nor was I seeing it. It could have been something I overlooked...if so, I'm not overlooking it now. :san_shocked:

It is important that others don't confuse this with the initial clash. I understand fully why we need to allow the pila to be released on the initial firing sequence--since the whole reaction sequence doesn't work well/automatically and pila would never be used otherwise.

Well, I'll give you that I'm pretty sure back in the day the front-rankers were busy swinging swords. Can't quarantee it though - it was long ago, and the way I play the game rarely results in slugging matches long enough for the prec-javelineers to "cycle through" to the firing sequence the way they did in the (rather one-sided) drawn-out fight on the wall.

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Originally Posted by Jambo

I doubt anyone's been selling CA short. What criticism there has been for RTW has on the whole been deserved. It's just that now CA have started producing the goods and making RTW into the game it really should have been! :D

There are still faults, there always will be, but on the whole there doesn't appear to be any real game-breakers!

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What i mean by me selling ca short...

Is ever since STW ive blamed CA for only releasing 2 patches,
Same with MTW...
So i was adament that CA were refusing to patch the game Just so they could then sell there add on's
"as the expantion would also fix some bugs".
I even reported them to the trading standards.

I am very pleased to see that they are releasing multiple patches for RTW.
And i know that the game Really needs the fixe's.
But there are aspects to all the TW games that could have done with a nother patch.

To me the fact that They are releasing these patches, Makes up for all the other short comings that had caused me to become so disheartend towards CA and the total war games,

That sounds a little too forgiving, to me...

Surely it would have been better to have games that worked right to begin with, rather than having them fixed over a year after they were released! The fact that people have had to wait this long just for bug-fixes makes me angry.

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Originally Posted by Zild

That sounds a little too forgiving, to me...

Surely it would have been better to have games that worked right to begin with, rather than having them fixed over a year after they were released! The fact that people have had to wait this long just for bug-fixes makes me angry.

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Would you have been more forgiving if it had been a Ford that you had bought, that was later recalled for a fault? The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't just CA, it's car manufacturers, house builders, IPODs with dodgy batteries, TV's with a bad batch of cathode ray tubes etc, etc.
In a perfect world, everything would be perfect right from the start. But this isn't an ideal world, and I don't think game manufacturers are any worse that other manufacturers. Many things aren't right when they are first marketed, and if people don't like it they vote with their feet. And if they don't vote with their feet, they shouldn't be complaining really. If it p*sses them off that much, they just don't buy another. And if they do buy another it can't have been that bad in the first place.
Just that I'm sick of people slagging off CA when they still buy their games. If people don't like them like they claim... DON'T BUY THEM.

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Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt

If people don't like them like they claim... DON'T BUY THEM.

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STW was bought So was the expantion AND then WE.
MTW was bought So was VI
RTW was bought Lots of complaints only some bought BI.

So They ARENT BUYING THEM!

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Originally Posted by Zild

That sounds a little too forgiving, to me...

Surely it would have been better to have games that worked right to begin with, rather than having them fixed over a year after they were released! The fact that people have had to wait this long just for bug-fixes makes me angry.

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This is the 1st time they have released more than 2 patches for a TW game,
So Atleast there trying now.
And thats all i ask for.

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Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt

Just that I'm sick of people slagging off CA when they still buy their games. If people don't like them like they claim... DON'T BUY THEM.

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Your rant is misplaced. Many of us in fact didn't buy BI for this very reason, but we checked in periodically hoping for things to be improved. We also did our part trying to recommend how to improve it. 1.5 has finally improved the game enough that I plan to buy BI.

Note that I bought MI and VI as soon as they became available. Why?Because I considered STW and MTW sufficiently well finished to base an expansion pack on. Also note that for the original STW and MTW I waited for the games to mature a bit before purchasing...not so with their expansions. And I do wish I had waited on RTW like I did with STW and MTW.

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Originally Posted by Slug For A Butt

Would you have been more forgiving if it had been a Ford that you had bought, that was later recalled for a fault? The point I'm trying to make is that it isn't just CA, it's car manufacturers, house builders, IPODs with dodgy batteries, TV's with a bad batch of cathode ray tubes etc, etc.
In a perfect world, everything would be perfect right from the start. But this isn't an ideal world, and I don't think game manufacturers are any worse that other manufacturers. Many things aren't right when they are first marketed, and if people don't like it they vote with their feet. And if they don't vote with their feet, they shouldn't be complaining really. If it p*sses them off that much, they just don't buy another. And if they do buy another it can't have been that bad in the first place.
Just that I'm sick of people slagging off CA when they still buy their games. If people don't like them like they claim... DON'T BUY THEM.

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I can honestly say that I do not recall having purchased many items at all that did not work as advertised when I first got them. Both computers I've owned have suffered damage during shipping, but I cannot think of anything beyond that.

I don't dispute that other companies also ship faulty goods, what I'm saying is that I'm annoyed at how common it has become amongst game developers.

Let me ask you this: have you ever taken a CD back because one of the songs on it was only half-written? Have you ever taken a DVD back because they hadn't quite got around to putting the soundtrack on it? Or taken a book back because the author hadn't bothered writing chapters three and seven yet?

In the highly unlikely event that you have, was this a fault with just your copy, or with every copy out there? Because the difference here is that NO copies of RTW work properly - they are all incomplete.

What truly frustrates me is that game developers feel they can get away with this for PC games. It is as if the ability to patch games gives them the right to do so. I've heard people fear that forthcoming consoles, with their ability to download content and store it on HDs, will suffer from this as well.

I realise this isn't just CA, but with CA it hits home a lot more because of how much I have enjoyed STW and MTW. There are worse games out there when it comes to bugs (Oil Tycoon 2 has some critical ones, and the only patch is in German), and I'm glad to see CA didn't stick to their previous policy regarding patches, as more were clearly needed. But this does not make them good, it merely makes them less bad.

As for voting with my feet, I already have. Whilst MTW may be my favourite game of all time, I did not buy RTW because of the flaws I heard about on these forums. I still have not bought it, and will not until it truly works. If that means never, then so be it.

I don't think this is just a game software problem. It's endemic in the software industry. Nearly every business software provider until recently has provided its wares without any warranties, including any warranty that its software will actually work. When you complain, they bill you more to try to get it to work, whether or not they succeed. Some tech departments are getting more savvy and letting themselves get raped less by software developers, but it's really how the industry has worked for some time now. Games are just a small slice of an enormous problem.

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I can honestly say that I do not recall having purchased many items at all that did not work as advertised when I first got them. Both computers I've owned have suffered damage during shipping, but I cannot think of anything beyond that.

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I have taken a Ford Focus back beacause of a fault that required a factory recall, I have taken an Aprilia motorbike back for a factory recall. It's the same as a patch for software, but my next bike will still be an Aprilia. And I don't bitch about it even though I could, because the overall product is great.

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Let me ask you this: have you ever taken a CD back because one of the songs on it was only half-written? Have you ever taken a DVD back because they hadn't quite got around to putting the soundtrack on it? Or taken a book back because the author hadn't bothered writing chapters three and seven yet?

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Thats just stretching it al little beyond reason. What you are saying is would you have taken the CD back if the album tracks had been crap? No you wouldn't. If your RTW CD hadn't worked when installing you would have taken it back. See the difference? It works as the manufacturer intended in either case, just because you are disappointed with the product, don't bitch and don't buy another.
.

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What truly frustrates me is that game developers feel they can get away with this for PC games. It is as if the ability to patch games gives them the right to do so. I've heard people fear that forthcoming consoles, with their ability to download content and store it on HDs, will suffer from this as well.

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My point exactly, it's a general problem. Whether it's Barrat houses (UK), cars or software there will always be problems.

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I realise this isn't just CA, but with CA it hits home a lot more because of how much I have enjoyed STW and MTW. There are worse games out there when it comes to bugs (Oil Tycoon 2 has some critical ones, and the only patch is in German), and I'm glad to see CA didn't stick to their previous policy regarding patches, as more were clearly needed. But this does not make them good, it merely makes them less bad.

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So what you are saying is that they are one of the better software companies because they patch their games? I agree.

So you're saying people shouldn't complain about games that do not work properly? People's unwillingness to complain and vote with their feet over past years is one of the main causes of this problem!

As for CA's behaviour, I'm not saying they are good - I am merely saying they are less bad (I thought this was clear from the part where I said:

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But this does not make them good, it merely makes them less bad.

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I'm sorry, was that not clear enough for you?

There are many companies out there who do not patch their games at all, and many more whose patches still leave games at a poor standard. But there are also some who actually patch games until they have no bugs, and some who (brace yourself for a bit of a shock) actually release games bug-free!

I'm entitled to complain. If you don't like it, you're entitled not to listen.

The 1.6 patch is excellent, fixes lot of the balancing issues in MP and SP and the replay fix is excellent too. Thanks, CA. :san_wink:

I did not insinuate in any way that you said they were good. I merely said that because there are worse software firms out there, by definition they are one of the better ones.

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So what you are saying is that they are one of the better software companies because they patch their games? I agree.

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I'm sorry, was that not clear enough for you?

Hmm, complaining about something you don't even own seems a little strange.

Good job CA.