New devolepment on protectorates.

I'm currently playing a Macedon game, its great because I have 5 protectorates and only 25-28 provinces, and my protectorates make me have 65 :)

My protectorate gaul was getting thrashed by briton, sent a army over there and made it a protectorate. Then I turned to Germany and took over its land and gave it to gaul, then took over half of Dacias land and gave it to Gaul, and Thrace is arleady a protectorate.

Went into eastern europe and took over pontus, then I made armenia a protectorate and gave it those lands and after a while made seluecids a protectorate, dont know how because they were a superpower AND arleady a protectorate to egypt??? Btw romans are all dead.

The point is I have to have minimun province control and still have 65 provinces, and all my borders are controlled. There is a use for protectorates after all :san_shocked: . I never couldve controlled the Germ and Gaul lands without having protectorates, they help massively because you dont have to deal with the culture penalty and the distance from capital penalty. The only downside is if Im about to attack someone and one of my protectorates have a alliance with them it cancels the protectorship :san_huh:

This was on vh/vh

What patch level? BI or no?

Im at 1.3 (no BI obviously) playing the Extended Greek Mod, as Greek Cities and I can't get a protectorate from Pontus, Macedon or Brutii for nuthin, I offer land, money, tribute, whores, THEY'LL TAKE NUTHIN!!! and this is after I beat them into a single territory, have their last port blocked, overwhelming forces, fairly talented diplomat... I just have never been able to get a protectorate, and I must tell you, I FEEL CHEATED! ~:mecry:

1.3, with no BI obviosly.

Iv found the best way is to take their land and then offer it back, along with cash and your map info. And make sure they dont have alliances with people your in war with.

Beating them down to a pulp wont work most of the time for some reason. Just offer them protectorate status after you demolished their main army.

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Originally Posted by holybandit

1.3, with no BI obviosly.

Iv found the best way is to take their land and then offer it back, along with cash and your map info. And make sure they dont have alliances with people your in war with.

Beating them down to a pulp wont work most of the time for some reason. Just offer them protectorate status after you demolished their main army.

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I find that that works too. They want their cities back and they don't like armies on whatever pitiful bit of ground they have left. The A.I. won't suggest other options during, so offer one city, a bit of cash, map info and trade rights to allow to pick what it likes. Be prepared to pay a lot though, bot in terms of cash and cities.

Protectorates are worth about as much as alliances, though. I once was at war with Gaul and Macedon, who where allies. I got Macedon as protectorate by giving them two cities and a lot of money back, (which gave me an auto cease-fire with Gaul), but upon resuming hostilities with the Gauls the Macedonians terminated the protectorate. Even though their army was a measly 500 men strong and they had no garrisons in their two restored cities. After this Darwin-award winning stupidity I felt fully justified in annihilating them.

The computer cant determine who is stronger and who is going to be annhilated, they always go with who attacks and then they terminate their alliance/protectorate with that group.

I'm playing a RTR game as the Greeks and after letting Carthage gain complete control over Numidia and the surrounding regions, I hit Carthage and sacked it. I now will buy mercenaries to hold it. I have control of all of Greece, Macedonia, Illyria and about half of Rome (bottom). Two stacks I are movie into Italy from the north (after war finished with Illyria) and they are about to hit a Gallic city with a full stack in it. I have started a war with Thrace and my full stacks of superb Greek soldiers are cutting through them like knife on butter. Maybe I'll ask Carthage to be a protectorate...Then I can pretty much rule the world!

I'd never be a protectorate...:ballchain:

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Originally Posted by holybandit

The computer cant determine who is stronger and who is going to be annhilated, they always go with who attacks and then they terminate their alliance/protectorate with that group.

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Interesting, I didn't know that. Is this just an observation or have you tested it?

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Originally Posted by Ludens

Interesting, I didn't know that. Is this just an observation or have you tested it?

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Tested it, I stopped playing my macedon game but when I left I couldnt make war on the parthians, which I wanted to because I wanted Armernia (My protectorate) To gain some more territory, but alas one of my other protectorates were allied with them and I couldnt :(

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Originally Posted by holybandit

Tested it, I stopped playing my macedon game but when I left I couldnt make war on the parthians, which I wanted to because I wanted Armernia (My protectorate) To gain some more territory, but alas one of my other protectorates were allied with them and I couldnt :(

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I meant: does this apply to the computer as well, or is just that your allies/protectorates always side with someone else? Or is it related to faction size?

Replying to what Alexander said, being a procterate isn't all that bad. I was playing a campaign with Pontus and things were going slowly. I had annihilated Armenia and taken the Seleucid Empire's easternmost provinces when Egypt offered to make me a procterate. (The Seleucids and Egyptians had an alliance which neither of them broke, which was rather odd...) Out of the deal I got a load of gold and a whole bunch of territory near the Nile, the best part was I wasn't a procterate for long. The next thing I knew the Egyptians were trying to take Arabia.

While playing the Saxons, the WRE caught me without a nearby army and going deep in the red. I made them pay me 4000d for 3 turns and I would be the protectorate. It got me out of the red and I true to form WRE broke the protectorate 2 turns later. Make sure the addition of you lands doesn't give the other faction the required victory conditions.

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Originally Posted by Ludens

I meant: does this apply to the computer as well, or is just that your allies/protectorates always side with someone else? Or is it related to faction size?

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It is related only to who attack who first, unfortunately. It is one of the major complaints in the diplomatic flaws that protectorates would betray their masters if the allies of those protectorates got attacked by the masters [It brought a lot of WTF!?]. Being a computer or a human player doesn't matter, so is the faction "strength."

So having a protectorate who's allied to many factions can tie your hands up from many ambitious expansionistic wars.

But I still love having protectorates, nonetheless. I like cultural diversity IF I rule the world. :san_grin: Their benefits to the player, however, are superficial. Apart from keeping them from ever breaking their "alliance" with you by conventional means (like attacking you or cancelling alliance), their provinces are counted as yours in the victory condition. It is rare that you can push them to fight wars for your cause.

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Originally Posted by AntiochusIII

It is related only to who attack who first, unfortunately. It is one of the major complaints in the diplomatic flaws that protectorates would betray their masters if the allies of those protectorates got attacked by the masters [It brought a lot of WTF!?]. Being a computer or a human player doesn't matter, so is the faction "strength."

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I see. The R:TW diplomacy is such an incomprehensible mess that I rarely bother paying attention to diplomatic states. It seems that in the end your best friend is a dead enemy ~:rolleyes: .

Thanks for the information.

I once got a loyal Armenia on my side against the egyptians, it cost me a crapload but was worth the distraction.

But once armenia sent theyre armys ( They controlled all of eastern europe so had a decent army) They got slaughtered, I mean...They sent 2-3 stacks and got ahnillated.

O and one more thing, have your protectorates be far away from you, or over a big province, the best way to keep them is for them to have no chance to attack you. SO far Iv never seen any 2 of my protectorates fight.

Protectorates can't betray you on their own, by the way. Consider them "unbreakable alliances" ... at least until you attack someone allied to them.

So it's a good idea to force troublesome neighbors you don't want to conquer to become protectorates if only to keep them at bay.