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BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
HEADLINES IN THE PAPERS
The Times :
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Blair surrenders chunk of rebate as EU wheeling and dealing ends
The Mail :
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Leaders agree deal over EU budget -
Tony Blair sacrificed an extra £2.7 billion to salvage an EU budget deal he insists is in Britain's interests
The Telegraph :
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Blair set to give up £7bn in rebate fiasco - Tony Blair was preparing his biggest climbdown over Europe last night, offering to slash Britain's EU budget rebate by £1 billion a year without winning any commitment from France on early reform of farm subsidies.
The Independent : - No story or article (still Fridays news)
The Guardian :
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Blair clinches deal with offer of big rebate cut - Tony Blair last night brokered an agreement on the EU budget which will see Britain give up £7bn of the rebate negotiated by Margaret Thatcher more than 20 years ago as part of a broad deal to pay the bill for Europe's enlargement to the east
ARTICLE FROM THE BBC WEBSITE
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European leaders have agreed the next seven-year EU budget after two days of what UK PM Tony Blair described as "extraordinarily complicated" talks.
The UK gives up 10.5bn euros (£7bn) of its budget rebate, after initially offering 8bn, while the overall budget grows to 862.4bn over seven years.
In return, the EU will review all its spending in 2008-2009, including the expensive Common Agricultural Policy.
Mr Blair said it was "an agreement that allows Europe to move forward".
Referring to budget commitments to new, mainly east European member states, he told reporters: "If we believe in enlargement, we had to do this deal now."
The EU leaders also agreed to grant formal candidate status to Macedonia.
The decision had been delayed by the budget impasse, with France especially sceptical about the wisdom of expansion plans for the bloc while finances remained undecided.
'Solidarity budget'
The 2007-13 budget figure agreed represents 1.045% percent of EU output, up from 1.03% in an earlier proposal but still well below the 1.24% sought by the European Commission.
Commission head Jose Manuel Barroso nonetheless hailed the extra money, saying: "Without solidarity there is no union."
The rebate money will be used exclusively to fund the development of the EU's 10 new members, mainly from eastern and central Europe.
Polish Prime Minister Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz, whose country will get 4bn euros in regional aid, said it was a "budget of solidarity... good for the sake of Poland and for the sake of the development of Europe".
French President Jacques Chirac, long at odds with the British leader on budget issues, praised Mr Blair's movement on the UK budget rebate.
By accepting the need to "deeply transform" the rebate, he said, Tony Blair had made a "legitimate but politically difficult" gesture.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, said to have played an important part in securing the final compromise, greeted the deal as "a good accord for the future of Europe".
A row deferred
After a pretty awful 12 months for the EU, its leaders will be glad to end the year if not exactly on a high, then on at least a success when yet another crisis was seriously on the cards, the BBC's Mark Mardell reports from Brussels.
In practical terms, the Eastern European countries can now start planning how to spend the cash they will get.
Angela Merkel played an effective role as a peacemaker rather than just as France's staunchest ally.
Tony Blair's grand project was to give Europe a modern budget, refocusing the spending of the European Union so it can face up to the challenges of globalisation rather than subsidising farmers.
He has achieved nothing like that, our correspondent says, not even the certainty that a review will apply to this budget round.
But he has ensured that the EU will return to the subject. This is a row deferred but a row that will happen, our Europe editor adds.
Your comments please:
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
Sounds like the UK got screwed. Essentially, they're kicking in all that extra money for nothing more than the promise that they'll "review" their spending policies.... wow, Blair must've really played hardball to get that from them. :san_tongue:
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
he's done it again....it's like being 'happy slapped' by Bliar and his cronies....:san_huh:
Isn't it amazing how willing this bunch of hypocritical, disingenuous and mendacious idiots love to give MY money to the EU.
Still looking on the bright side the more the EU is exposed as the sham it is, the faster, we in the UK, will open our eyes and tell the whole 'gravy-train' lot of 'em to sod off.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
Finally some sense has come to the minds of the stubborn brits. About bloody time that rebate was cut away from the wealthy britain and redirected to the 10 new poorer countries - now we only need to cut away the farm subsidises
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
This in no way solves the problem. The system still needs to be redesigned from the ground up, keeping the new nations and the different relations between older EU members in mind. There's a limit to how much strain ageing legislation can take, and this has been put off for too long.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Isn't it amazing how willing this bunch of hypocritical, disingenuous and mendacious idiots love to give MY money to the EU.
Do you smell this stench, too? Yes, I think it's egocentric reactions like yours that stink so strongly.
Considering the UK's rebate should no longer exist (nor should the CAP in its current form), be happy he didn't give up all of it. If you want your damned money back (and may you choke on it), call for a referendum and leave the EU. You'll have to pay tariffs again but you'll have your money back, your "oh so precious" money back.
I gather from the overall British reactions on this forum that setting aside one's pride and one's interests for a while is akin to a deadly sin.
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Finally some sense has come to the minds of the stubborn brits. About bloody time that rebate was cut away from the wealthy britain and redirected to the 10 new poorer countries - now we only need to cut away the farm subsidises
Couldn't say it better.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
the problem is, as I have stated before, that the poltical elites in the UK and even the EU, have 'steamrollered' the idea of a one European State, whereas, at least in the UK, we were told that this was a free trade zone, similar to EFTA and FTAA, not a way for the '2nd world' in Europe to suck up money from the developed north.
I have family living in southern Europe and it's clear that without funding from the north the populace would still be barefoot peasants riding around on donkeys if this wasn't the case.
I, for one, would have liked the common courtesy from our political leaders to be asked if this is what I wanted.
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Do you smell this stench, too? Yes, I think it's egocentric reactions like yours that stink so strongly.
So you think I should have no say in where and how MY taxes are spent?
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by InsaneApache
So you think I should have no say in where and how MY taxes are spent?
Oh we certainly understood it is YOUR money, be reassured. What can I add besides that your reasoning is egoistic?
If you're so unhappy, exile then.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Ldvs
What can I add besides that your reasoning is egoistic?
So wanting to make sure that the money that you have worked hard to earn is being well spent is being egotistic? To me it just sounds sensible.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Marcellus
So wanting to make sure that the money that you have worked hard to earn is being well spent is being egotistic? To me it just sounds sensible.
I didn't say it wasn't sensible, I criticise the fact the majority of the British is clearly unwilling to give money to help finance the poorer countries.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Ldvs
I didn't say it wasn't sensible, I criticise the fact the majority of the British is clearly unwilling to give money to help finance the poorer countries.
Like France? :san_kiss:
As I stated in the above thread, no one asked us, it just happened. It might seem ok to some of our mainland fellows to be content to be led from the top down, but it just isn't the way we (in the UK) go about doing things. We fought hard for hundreds of years to gain our poltical freedoms and yes, our 'common' law did a lot to bring that about.
We should leave the EU to drown in a morass of corrupt bureaucracy.
EDIT:damn beaten to it :)
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
Taxation without representation?
haha! i'm so lucky to live in the U.S.A, where crap like that never happens. Wait, it does happen. Carry on then.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
I'm not in favour of the British rebate per se, but I sympathise with Tony Blair's...previous position: only discuss the rebate if the CAP is also up for discussion.
Because France has a lot of farmers, the CAP works and feels like a rebate on their net contribution. Except that this "rebate" isn't going to the French treasury, but in the pockets of French farmers- a small, yet influential group of people that starts to bitch and moan once the policial leaders talk about discontinuing their allowance.
And now Blair has yielded the rebate, for a vague promise that the budget may be reformed in 2008 or 2009. Frankly, I have no hopes the CAP will change in a meaningful manner because France (like any other EU country) can veto any budget proposition she doesn't like.
I'm normally an enthusiast for European cooperation, but it sure isn't easy to hold on to that position. In my opinion, and I guess in that of many others, the entire EU budget should go down the crapper and be redesigned from scratch, ideally so that nobody needs to get special rebates because the calculations end up unfair for them.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Ldvs
I didn't say it wasn't sensible, I criticise the fact the majority of the British is clearly unwilling to give money to help finance the poorer countries.
Why should the citizens of Britian want to give money to finance the corruption and the governments of other nations. Its one thing to help the people of other nations - but its a different story when the money is only used to futher feed corruption.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
I wasn't aware that "corruption" was one of the official spending posts of the EU budget. Nor was I aware that the UK's contribution was fully directed towards it. Could you perhaps direct me to an online source?
:san_wink:
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Germaanse Strijder
I wasn't aware that "corruption" was one of the official spending posts of the EU budget. Nor was I aware that the UK's contribution was fully directed towards it. Could you perhaps direct me to an online source?
:san_wink:
Sure I can - all one has to do is look at the budget and certain EU projects - the Eurofighter comes to mind real quick
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ht/3027212.stm
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Bad accounting, along with bad management, nepotism and the fraud that resulted from it, brought down the entire European Union Commission, then headed by Jacques Santer, just four years ago. The new team, headed by Romano Prodi and Neil Kinnock, promised that affairs would from now on be very different.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...0/ixworld.html
And that was just the top two articles from a search using "European Union Corruption"
It seems the EU has more fraud, waste, and abuse (two of those terms mean corruption also) then even the United States Congress. Laughable isn't?
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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the Eurofighter comes to mind real quick
??
The EF Typhoon is not even an EU project, and I haven't heard of any outrageous form of corruption in it either.
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It seems the EU has more fraud, waste, and abuse (two of those terms mean corruption also) then even the United States Congress. Laughable isn't?
Fraud and abuse are indeed prime examples of corruption. Waste however does not imply corruption- just because something is innefficient doesn't mean it's corrupt.
Anyway, I am aware that corruption is a big problem with the current EU, however the UK doesn't seem disadvantaged more then anyone else because of it (unfair budgetairy policies are not a form of corruption, but mismanagement). But what ticked me off about your post was this:
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but its a different story when the money is only used to futher feed corruption.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Germaanse Strijder
??
The EF Typhoon is not even an EU project, and I haven't heard of any outrageous form of corruption in it either.
Fraud and abuse are indeed prime examples of corruption. Waste however does not imply corruption- just because something is innefficient doesn't mean it's corrupt.
Anyway, I am aware that corruption is a big problem with the current EU, however the UK doesn't seem disadvantaged more then anyone else because of it (unfair budgetairy policies are not a form of corruption, but mismanagement). But what ticked me off about your post was this:
Was it incorrect - or wrong. Any money given to the EU by any nation is indeed used to futher feed the corruption, in an indirect way.
Hell but since some like to make generalizations about the United States - I think its fair to make the same generalizations about other nations or groups.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Like France? :san_kiss:
As I stated in the above thread, no one asked us, it just happened. It might seem ok to some of our mainland fellows to be content to be led from the top down, but it just isn't the way we (in the UK) go about doing things. We fought hard for hundreds of years to gain our poltical freedoms and yes, our 'common' law did a lot to bring that about.
We should leave the EU to drown in a morass of corrupt bureaucracy.
EDIT:damn beaten to it :)
Yes, like France. It´s called "British rebate" for a reason.
If you weren´t asked that´s a national problem. Your politicians signed treaties that were clearly not about a trade zone. If you weren´t informed that´s a problem between you and your national politicians. Maybe you are the one lead "from the top down"?
And if you leave the EU it is more likely that the one drowning is you.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
I don't really see a problem with the deal, it not only is fair in terms of helping the new countries but it also is a stepping stone onto getting CAP sorted. This is one of the things I shall say well done Blair on.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by JAG
I don't really see a problem with the deal, it not only is fair in terms of helping the new countries but it also is a stepping stone onto getting CAP sorted. This is one of the things I shall say well done Blair on.
I agree.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
Shadeswolf, since you did some work on this before... Won't this new arrangement make the UK the largest net contributor to the EU?
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I didn't say it wasn't sensible, I criticise the fact the majority of the British is clearly unwilling to give money to help finance the poorer countries.
Personally, I find the whole notion of national welfare/income redistribution to be stupid and wasteful. If they really wanted to help the "poorer" countries, they should break down more trade barriers and get rid of their tax homogenization efforts. Just because many of the current EU members have bloated welfare states doesnt mean that new members should be forced to hike their taxes to make previous members competitive.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
If you weren´t asked that´s a national problem. Your politicians signed treaties that were clearly not about a trade zone. If you weren´t informed that´s a problem between you and your national politicians. Maybe you are the one lead "from the top down"?
And if you leave the EU it is more likely that the one drowning is you.
It's all clear to me now, just as it was to the voters in France and the Netherlands, thankyou for pointing that out. :san_rolleyes:
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
It has nothing to do with bloated welfare states but with lacking infrastructure. Increasing infrastructure in states you want to trade with isn´t a form of wealth redistribution but investment. It has worked very well before.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Geoffrey S
Like France?
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Originally Posted by InsaneApache
Like France? :san_kiss:
We pay our share. As Germaanse Strijder pointed it out, the subsidies only benefit a small minority, not France as a whole.
Moreover, we are net contributor, meaning we pay for those subsidies.
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by Ldvs
Moreover, we are net contributor, meaning we pay for those subsidies.
Although I don't support the rebate in the long term, a similar argument could be made: "We are a net contributor, meaning we pay for the rebate".
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Re: BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
Although I agree with the deal Blair has made, it is quite disgusting for French members of the board and the French govt to a) defend the CAP and the way the budget is structured and b) have a go at the UK, just after we have given some of the rebate away and NEGOTIATED for the common good, something the French sometimes need to take a little in mind.
That really makes mine and most peoples blood boil.
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Re : BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe
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Originally Posted by JAG
Although I agree with the deal Blair has made, it is quite disgusting for French members of the board and the French govt to a) defend the CAP and the way the budget is structured and b) have a go at the UK, just after we have given some of the rebate away and NEGOTIATED for the common good, something the French sometimes need to take a little in mind.
That really makes mine and most peoples blood boil.
Nobody likes the CAP and I see few, if any, people here defend it. It is in dire need of reforming. Rather than an instrument for common policy as it was once hailed, it is the epitomy of caring for nationalistic, particularistic elements.
The rebate needs to go to too, and this a great step towards it. It was a silly practice to begin with, even though it made some sense in 1983, when the UK, having joined the EU only 10 years earlier, was still one of the poorer members yet was a net contributor.
Rather than the UK 'surrendering', the way I see it, the UK has taken over the driver seat from the traditional France-German axis. The EU is about moving forward, about international cooperation for the common good of all. It should act as a counter-balance for petty, nationalistic, protectionist policies.
All that Chirac has done in the past six months since the referendum, is giving in to the impression that the EU is only about who gets to help himself most from this huge pile of gold in Brussels. Thereby proving that those who are oppossed to the EU for this very reason were right after all.
He shouldn't have gone after Britain in may, he should've stepped down to make way for politicians who aren't 142 years old like he is and who can breath some fresh air and ideas into Europe, like Blair did.
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Re: Re : BLIAR surrenders to federal Europe